Black Vegans Rock<\/a>, a dynamic digital platform that spotlights the achievements of everyday black vegans, for which Syl consults. And together, they ran the blog Aphro-ism, from which their book stemmed. Although the sisters live far apart \u2014 Aph is in Florida, and Syl is in Maine \u2014 their synergy is potent, and the illuminating work it has produced is a reminder of the unbridled possibilities of collaboration. Aph and Syl spoke with LAIKA<\/i> about the importance of rebuilding, why confusion can be a good thing and how their work has changed them.<\/span><\/p>\nLAIKA: What in your opinion are some effective tactics to help someone change their view on animals?
<\/span><\/strong>Syl:<\/strong> Different things will work for different people. Also, there are many different kinds of animals. Learning to \u201cre-see\u201d one kind may not lead to re-seeing others. For instance, many people learn to truly value the lives of dogs, but that doesn\u2019t mean they will value the lives of, say, mice or pigs. In the past few years, my way of helping people rethink their ideas about animals has been to get them to question where those ideas come from. Usually these \u201cnormal\u201d (read: \u201cindoctrinated\u201d) ideas have little to do with actual nonhuman animals and everything to do with the invented notion of animality, an idea imposed onto animals (and some human beings). Once they are a little less sure about what to think, people are more open to listening to other points of view. <\/span><\/p>\nIn Aphro-ism<\/i>, you write about \u201creconstructing.\u201d Why do you feel it is so vital to go beyond merely criticizing oppressive systems?
<\/span><\/strong>Aph:<\/strong> Pointing out issues with specific spaces and lines of thinking is fine and necessary, but so is rebuilding. I think that when we hyperfocus on criticizing others, we end up in a situation like we\u2019re in today, where everyone tries to act \u201cwoke\u201d in a performative way because they don\u2019t want to be seen as an offensive presence. There is too much emphasis on staying quiet or reciting mantras out of fear that people will criticize. All of us are going to mess up at times, but that\u2019s not the main point. The main point is growing, learning and rebuilding. I definitely think art and literature are elements of this reconstruction.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\u201cI think revolution won\u2019t happen without thought; however, thought without action won\u2019t make the revolution a reality.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\nYour book includes an eye-opening critique of social media. How can activists make the most of this tool?<\/strong>
<\/span>Aph:<\/strong> I think every person will have to figure this out for themselves. Social media has such incredible power to introduce people to new ideas and to connect with others in a way that\u2019s truly meaningful, but it also has the power to distort and cause harm. It\u2019s also a generational thing. Growing up, I didn\u2019t even have the internet until middle school. I didn\u2019t have my first flip phone until I was a senior in high school, and I didn\u2019t have access to the internet on my phone. The internet was like this precious, magical thing. Now, it\u2019s widely available, and I think the younger generation has a different relationship to it in a way that I don\u2019t even understand. My goal isn\u2019t to tell people to not use social media \u2014 it\u2019s just to be mindful of how it can shape your relationship to your own self and to others.<\/span><\/p>\nYou stress the urgency of having an \u201cepistemological revolution.\u201d What do you think will make revolution possible?
<\/span><\/strong>Aph:<\/strong> Nothing alone will fix the problem. We need as many efforts as possible. I think a lot of folks have different roles in a movement. We need people to be doing food justice work, we need people to be tackling animal liberation, we need people to create media representations and we also need people to create new conceptual blueprints for activists. So, I think revolution won\u2019t happen without thought; however, thought without action won\u2019t make the revolution a reality.<\/span><\/p>\nHow have your own studies, you work, research and writing this book impacted the way you move about in the world?
<\/span><\/strong>Syl:<\/strong> Black veganism started out as an idea for a seminar paper I wrote a few years ago. I didn\u2019t think much of it at the time. But as I worked it up for [the] Aphro-ism [blog], I began to believe it. I\u2019ve always been sensitive to animal suffering, but when I recast their oppression in racial terms, it was like I saw for the first time the magnitude of what they are facing. I think I cried daily the entire time I worked on this project! Thanks to working on Aphro-ism<\/i>, I\u2019ve definitely reaffirmed my commitment to doing whatever I can to help nonhuman animals out of this mess. I\u2019ve changed my life drastically to make sure that remains my focus. This has also led me to really appreciate other animal advocates. We\u2019re all in it for the long haul despite how emotionally taxing this work is, so I have started to feel like I\u2019m part of an amazing, diverse and global family.<\/span><\/p>\nAph:<\/strong> Aphro-ism<\/i> has definitely changed me. In particular, it has <\/span>made me realize that living is important. At the end of the day, the goal of my activism isn\u2019t just to fight forever \u2014 we have to climb out of the trenches at some point and live. Once when you hit that actual realization in your life, it\u2019s liberating.<\/span><\/p>\nWhat were some of the catalysts that led to where you are today?
<\/span><\/strong>Aph:<\/strong> I have always had an interest in questioning power and being loud. Additionally, Syl has been such an incredible source of friendship and intellectual stimulation for me. When I was 17, she helped cultivate my interests and passions for liberation by introducing me to books by brilliant thinkers. I\u2019ve also been inspired by professors and friends who helped extend my own understanding of these issues. Additionally, I have an incredible husband who has been like the best friend anyone could ask for. We talk all the time and he has influenced who I have become today. <\/span>Syl and I also had a super intense father (who passed away last year), who really prized critical thinking and intellectual exploration. He always urged us to think for ourselves and to question everything.<\/span><\/p>\nAph, has working on Black Vegans Rock helped you foster a community in your own life?
<\/span><\/strong>Yes. Black Vegans Rock has opened my eyes to how rich and diverse <\/span>the black vegan community is. I went into this project thinking only 10 people would want to be featured, and now we\u2019ve featured close to 300, and counting. I receive messages every week from people who tell me how much this space means to them, and to a certain extent, this website has changed my own life in ways I didn\u2019t expect. <\/span><\/p>\nThis was an eye-opening statement in the book: \u201cIf you find that you\u2019re rarely confused and rarely challenged, then you might be operating from a script yourself.\u201d Why is confusion encouraging?
<\/span><\/strong>Aph:<\/strong> I always say that a person\u2019s question isn\u2019t really a question: It\u2019s actually a statement about where they\u2019re at in their own political journey. A question is like a window into someone\u2019s current mind. So one way of dealing with these types of questions is by following up with more questions. That\u2019s the beauty of critical thinking: The goal isn\u2019t necessarily to just give answers, because if someone doesn\u2019t have the necessary conceptual tools to understand your message, it isn\u2019t going to stick. It\u2019s about meeting people where they are and asking them<\/i> questions. The goal is to basically help create a mirror so that the person can see their own politics within<\/i> the question itself.<\/span><\/p>\nMOVE is an organization you\u2019ve mentioned in one of your videos, Aph, as an example of early black animal rights activism. One of their members, Ramona Africa, has talked about the perniciousness of greed and excess and how \u201csatisfaction\u201d has become lost in our society. What does \u201csatisfaction\u201d mean to you?
<\/span><\/strong>Satisfaction and success means living the simplest life that I possibly can. In American society, we\u2019re told that we have to look outside of ourselves to find meaning. Society robs of us of ourselves and tells us that we need to work to find happiness and be super busy and panic all the time to have meaning. I\u2019m the exact opposite, and it\u2019s taken me time to get here: I have everything I already need to be happy. I don\u2019t work to find happiness, I work to sustain the happiness I already feel. After the death of my father last year, all of my priorities changed and I realized that I want to live a life where I am relaxed, where I can enjoy each moment with my family. Success is feeling whole inside.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n