Introduction<\/h3>\n
How can a bottle of wine become the invitation, slow down the moment, and create space for real conversation? Why does the wine industry need to look beyond wine itself to win back consumers?\u00a0How can wine become more relevant to younger consumers?<\/p>\n
In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I\u2019m chatting with John Boynton<\/p>\n
You can find the wines we discussed here<\/a>.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Join the live-stream video of this conversation on Wednesday at 7 pm eastern on Instagram Live Video<\/strong><\/a>, Facebook Live Video<\/a><\/strong> or YouTube Live Video<\/strong><\/a>.<\/p>\n I\u2019ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real-time.<\/p>\n I want to hear from you! What\u2019s your opinion of what we\u2019re discussing? What takeaways or tips do you love most from this chat? What questions do you have that we didn\u2019t answer?<\/p>\n Want to know when we go live?<\/p>\n Add this to your calendar:<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n John Boynton is the President of Arterra Wines Canada. He oversees the domestic and international sales, marketing and operations of Canada\u2019s leading wine company.<\/p>\n John joined the company in 2022 from NordStar (parent company of Torstar) where he held the role of Vice Chair and President of Digital. He was previously the President and CEO of Torstar and Publisher of The Toronto Star.<\/p>\n John is an experienced CEO with a proven track record of helping companies transform and grow \u2013 successfully turning strategy into action. He leads his teams in a way that aligns to our purpose and values, focusing on teamwork and collaboration.<\/p>\n Throughout his 35-year career, John has worked in Sales, Marketing and Operations \u2013 for many different industries. He has experience in building both customer and direct-to-consumer relationships as well as in mobile, digital, data and ecommerce.<\/p>\n A Canadian, John has lived and worked in Canada, the US and Europe.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Tag me on social media if you enjoyed the episode:<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:00:00 How can a bottle of wine become the invitation? Slow down the moment and create space for real conversation. How can a bottle of wine become the invitation and slow down the moment to create space for real conversation? Why does the wine industry need to look beyond wine itself to win back consumers? And how can wine become more relevant to younger drinkers? In today\u2019s episode, you\u2019ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in our chat with John Boynton, CEO of our Terra Wines Canada. By the end of our conversation, you\u2019ll also discover why John believes wine can help combat the growing problem of loneliness. What makes wine uniquely suited to slowing us down and creating deeper face to face connections? What the first year of the Come Over October movement revealed about people\u2019s desire for a more meaningful connection. Why John believes wine can help us be more present in an increasingly digital world. What the wine industry needs to understand about the pre-party occasion. Why our Tara created a bold flavored wine. How much of wine\u2019s decline is being driven by affordability versus moderation and changing lifestyles, and what trends like Zero Sugar wines can teach the industry about reinventing itself for today\u2019s consumer? Okay, on with the show.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:01:41 Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that\u2019s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I\u2019m your host Natalie MacLean. And each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I\u2019m so glad you\u2019re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let\u2019s get started.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:02:23 We\u2019ve never been more connected online, and.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:02:25 Yet we\u2019ve never felt.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:02:26 More disconnected in person. We can reach anyone in seconds, and.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:02:30 Yet.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:02:31 We rarely do. We let months slip by without seeing the people who matter most to us. My guest today decided to do something about that. John Boynton is the CEO of our Terra Wines Canada, the country\u2019s largest wine company. He, along with Winegrowers Canada, are championing Come Over October, a movement created by Karen McNeil, author of The Wine Bible.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:02:53 It\u2019s now in its second year in Canada and the theme is really simple open your door, open a bottle and reconnect with the people you love. So today we\u2019re talking about why connection has become so difficult. What the wine industry is facing, and how a bottle on the table still brings people together. Don, welcome to the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:03:14 Thanks for having me. I\u2019m a big fan and I really enjoyed your last podcast on Blended Scotch. That was great.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:03:20 Oh, good. Yes. Well, if it\u2019s liquid, we\u2019ll talk about it. So what made you decide, John, to take a leadership role in launching come over October here in Canada?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:03:29 Sure. We came across a really horrific stat and that is that 57% of Canadians feel lonely. Oh, and there\u2019s so much research out there that correlates loneliness to mental health. And so if mental health is the big topic and loneliness is one of the one of the drivers of it, as the largest wine company in Canada, we felt we could do something about it.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:03:50 So yeah, as you say, more than half of Canadians feel they don\u2019t have a strong sense of belonging where they live. That\u2019s just devastating, actually. And so when you hear a number like that, what does it tell you about what wines role or job is now?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:04:05 Sure. Yeah. It actually it\u2019s getting worse. It\u2019s not getting better since Covid and you can imagine everybody shut in all that kind of stuff. And today everybody lives so digitally. And in a digital world, everybody gets fooled that they have all these connections. But you don\u2019t really have deep connections. You have affiliations. You have people that swap text messages back and forth. But that\u2019s not a that\u2019s not a deep connection. And how to create more personal connections, again, in a in an increasingly digital world and increasingly isolated world is something that I think only wine can do. No other beverage category anywhere. Alcohol, non alcohol can do something about it in my opinion.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:04:44 And why is that? What makes wine different from other types of alcohol or non alcohol?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:04:49 Sure.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:04:50 Wine is generally not something that speeds things up. It\u2019s generally something that really slows things down. So it\u2019s very conducive to a meal which is very social, or not having a meal, but just before a meal or cocktails, before a meal or whatever, or an after dinner drink. But it very conducive to being face to face first of all, and very conducive to giving people a little bit of time in such a crazy, hectic world to to connect and create a memory.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:05:16 Sure, absolutely. It is the drink of conversation. I\u2019m biased, of course, but it\u2019s gone back 8000 years now. We certainly don\u2019t do wine like we do shooters and vodka or whatever. And then, I don\u2019t know, there\u2019s something about wine, even though I\u2019m an advocate of those who want to have non-alcoholic drinks for various reasons, I think there\u2019s just something about wine. And yes, it has alcohol in it, but it\u2019s that slow sort of slowing down into the moment, that magical combination. I think that wine gives us so agreed.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:05:44 77% of people say busy schedules keep them from the people they love. So what barrier is come over October trying to remove.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:05:54 This and your stat is like really the crux of everything. Think about it. 57% feel lonely, but 77 say they\u2019re too busy. And so it\u2019s not like some deep seated problem that we need. Tons and tons of work to figure out. And it\u2019s going to be complicated. And how to execute. No, it\u2019s really simple. We need to create awareness. We need to create something that is a catalyst that drives away from the inertia, that 77%. And I think that\u2019s the role wine has. Wine can be the catalyst. And while I said it slows down and creates a memory and makes that connection more intimate, it also can play a much bigger role in being a catalyst overall. And come over October. Is the awareness created in general about the issue and that getting a little bit of self-awareness. So yeah, why can\u2019t I get together with people? That doesn\u2019t sound right.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:06:45 And then again, wins the catalyst?<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:06:47 Absolutely. I mean, that\u2019s why we have occasions and holidays. Otherwise we\u2019d never stop or I know I wouldn\u2019t, but it\u2019s like Christmas. No one\u2019s going to answer your email, so just stop it. Yeah. Come over. October is again creating the occasion. Just the memory hint or whatever that some people need. Well, most of us need, apparently. So you said that wine isn\u2019t the point, though, of the whole thing. Conversation is. So where does the bottle of wine actually do its work? Is it in the glass, in the invitation? Both.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:07:18 Well, this is where I think, really, wine separates itself from everything else. Wine is not only the excuse, but it is also the invitation. And it\u2019s also the reason to accept the invitation. It is a signal that I haven\u2019t seen you in a while and I want to see you. So it\u2019s a message in itself. It is the speed adjudicator. So as I said, it slows everything down.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:07:42 It is a creation of the conversation because it slows things down. Wine sometimes has its own conversation that goes with it as well, and it has the memory creation as well. I don\u2019t think a lot of people remember a lot of text messages and emails that they did last week. But you will remember that bottle of wine you had when you got together for a few hours with someone you haven\u2019t seen in a couple of months that you\u2019ll remember.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:08:04 You will absolutely. And smell and taste. Directly connect to emotion and memory in our brain. It\u2019s the only one that goes directly every. All our other senses have to go through some other neural networks. Some friends used to think I was just a sort of a wine savant. Not in any other regard but wine. Yes, because I remember who I was with, what they were wearing, what I was wearing, who was, you know, what was the. But it\u2019s that that emotional memory sense, the whole thing that comes together. So open your door, open a bottle.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:08:36 It\u2019s a simple ask. Why does something that simple need a movement behind it?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:08:41 Yeah, it\u2019s your stat, right? It\u2019s the same reason. It\u2019s the reason. It\u2019s why it\u2019s an issue. People are too busy. Yes. And or they perceive themselves as too busy, or they just need a little bit of a kick. And so if you have awareness now, the next thing you have is your own self-awareness. Is this me? Is this what I\u2019m doing? And therefore, again, it becomes the spark or the catalyst and the reminder that this is actually important. There\u2019s a lot of things in your life important, but if you\u2019re not connecting to the people that matter most to you.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:09:10 What is the point? Yeah, absolutely. We work so hard. When I first got into this industry, I thought, I\u2019m going to help assist the helpless rich trying to pick the right vintage. I\u2019m not saving someone abroad. But then I thought, you know what? We all work so hard. Why? So that we can spend time with our friends and family in a meaningful way with sensory pleasures.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:09:30 That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:09:31 What else is there on this planet?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:09:33 And if that\u2019s so, what goes away, then? All you\u2019re doing is working hard.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:09:37 That\u2019s it. Yeah, that\u2019s pretty simple. Yep. So this is year two now for come over October in Canada. What did year one teach you that\u2019s changing how you approach the whole campaign this year?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:09:49 I think we were blown away last year. I think we tried it the first year and we thought, okay, we\u2019ll get it out there. We\u2019ll talk a little bit online about it and something really big happen. It hit a chord and it hit a chord because we really went to the center, like the bullseye of the problem, of the inertia and actually the importance on the other side and that feeling of loneliness, etcetera, etcetera. And I think it wasn\u2019t a complicated thing to explain. And I think that\u2019s one of the lessons learned, is we don\u2019t have to really talk too much about the whys about this, because everybody gets it really quickly.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:10:23 It\u2019s the catalyst and the getting over the inertia and getting people to do something that is going to be important. So we\u2019ve got some awareness. We got a lot of people talking online, an enormous amount of chatter online. But remember it\u2019s online. It\u2019s not really real. Yeah. So I think this year we\u2019re going to take all that good awareness and self-analysis that people did the outside in looking in their own lives. And we\u2019re going to spend a little bit more time catalysing to get them out.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:10:51 And how are you doing that, catalyzing them?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:10:53 We\u2019re going to do more examples and make it really simple for people. Of course, people don\u2019t need examples to get together how to get together, but we\u2019re giving them like lots of ideas around different things you can do and different with different types of people and different types of food and that kind of thing. So it could be a little more fun and a little less planned and contrived.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:11:11 Sure, absolutely. And again, going back to screens do promise us connection.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:11:16 Then quietly stand between us and the people who are right in front of us often. And wine is one of those few things that only works in person. We can\u2019t text a bottle, that kind of thing. So it\u2019s a must. And you mentioned earlier something interesting that I meant to pick up on. Wine itself often has a story I find that most bottles do. They have someone who struggled or a story of whatever. Is that something you often get into when you\u2019re sharing a bottle?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:11:42 Everybody\u2019s interested, right? Other products, their products. Right. And people drink them. They know them. But there\u2019s not a big story that goes with them, and nobody really asks about them that much. And so it\u2019s a conversation starter too, because when you put it down, everybody goes, oh, what\u2019s that? And you can talk a little bit about it. It gets things going. A little bit of a conversational lubricant if you like to kick off things. But yeah, they have a they have their story.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:12:04 But the important thing is that it forces presence. And presence is something that has become more and more important for people as we get super distracted with screens all the time. And the more people have these glued to them, like, and I\u2019m guilty for sure, but the more you have that, the less you\u2019re present. You can be physically there, but you\u2019re not present. That\u2019s true. And and I think what wine does is it really forces presence unlike anything else, any other entertainment or anything. And you\u2019re really super aware when the phone goes down and then you\u2019re looking at the person. So that\u2019s that creates that connection when you\u2019re present and the connection is what creates then the memory.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:12:44 Absolutely. Yeah. You can be watching Netflix or something and on your screen and someone\u2019s beside you, but you\u2019re not really there with them. But I think that\u2019s another thing with wine. It does bring you back down, like if you live in your head all the time and are thinking and like it actually brings you back down into your physical cells to be more present with somebody.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:13:06 Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:13:08 Yeah. I\u2019m not getting emotional over this. I\u2019ve got seasonal allergies. Okay. Just so you know. But so yeah, I think about wine too on the table at dinner, say, and it\u2019s one of the few, if only products on the table that\u2019s still in its often in its original packaging. You see the label, we don\u2019t put avocados or tomatoes in their original packaging, and I think that\u2019s what makes it unique. No one cares where the we do, to a certain extent, care where our food comes from, but not to the extent that we want to know about the wine. It\u2019s just there\u2019s something different about it.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:13:44 It\u2019s full. It\u2019s fully vertical, right? Like all the grapes are grown locally, and then they\u2019re all picked locally and then they\u2019re all put in a barrel locally. And so everything is really farm to table. And that\u2019s a different kind of. Local conversation as well. It\u2019s not just the product, but it\u2019s your community and your local area as well.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:14:01 It is. And I you know, I go back to other consumer packaged goods in the food and drink category. I used to work at Procter and Gamble on, like Crisco and Duncan Hines and Pringles. No one cared where those things came from. They cared about, you know, taste and safety. But that was about it. There was no hardened in it like it was just, I don\u2019t know, there\u2019s just something about the people and places behind the bottle with wine.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:14:25 Yeah. And wines. Different. Even other beverage, alcohol, beverage products. You\u2019re not exactly sure where all the ingredients came from, you know. And why.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:14:32 Yes. That\u2019s true. The transparency, the authenticity, the soil and the fact it\u2019s going to be different every year. You know, in other packaged goods, you want them to be consistent, the same. But in wine you actually aren\u2019t striving for that. You\u2019re just striving for the best that you can offer. Yeah, I just wanted to share a memory with you because this whole come over October has brought things up for me in a good way.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:14:53 So a couple of years ago, our We Our Family reunion in Halifax almost didn\u2019t happen because our schedules weren\u2019t lining up. And there you go. Couldn\u2019t agree where to meet.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:15:02 And yeah, you\u2019re 77% or whatever.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:15:05 Exactly in that category. But somehow it came together. And so we had more than 30 aunts and uncles and cousins show up, and two of them, an aunt and an uncle, have since passed away. And I am so grateful I have one more chance to be with them. And wine was on the table. It wasn\u2019t the point, but it did slow us all down so that we got to hear their stories about their childhood and part of our story, which is special. So, John, what does coming over mean to you in your own life? Is there a ritual or.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:15:37 Oh yeah. Yeah, I\u2019ve ramped up since last year, so I had a ton of self-awareness that happened last year. And I\u2019ve got a group of guys I go to get chicken wings and watch an NFL football game.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:15:48 I\u2019ve got different people that we go over to their house to watch a hockey game, have a family that I meet up with. Up in Northern Ontario, we do a Sunday dinner when we get back into the fall, winter, spring, we do Sunday dinners at our house with our adult children and our significant others and spouses. We go out to restaurants more often now with other couples, and we even are traveling now with other couples. So we went into hyperdrive on trying to connect. You know, it\u2019s it\u2019s all worth it. It\u2019s all great. And yeah, you might be a little tired the next morning, but it\u2019s so worth it than saying, geez, I haven\u2019t seen so-and-so in four months. That\u2019s a terrible thing to say out loud when it\u2019s a good friend or a family member.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:16:27 Sure. Oh, great. You\u2019re walking the talk. You\u2019re on it. Let\u2019s move now to some trends in the industry that you\u2019re seeing. Consumption, of course, is trending down in wine. It\u2019s the younger and millennial drinkers who are pulling back the hardest.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:16:42 Your read, though, is that they haven\u2019t fallen out of love with wine. So what\u2019s actually happening?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:16:47 First of all, the younger people today have less time and less money. So those are important factors. They\u2019re also living a digital life. And so they\u2019re going out less often. That\u2019s a factor. Their friends are generally a wider circle, but they\u2019re more acquaintances versus closer friends. That all leads to the fact that they have very different occasions and very different needs. And Y has been really good at filling different occasions. But a lot of the occasions associated with younger drinkers, wine does not become that relevant. And I think that\u2019s the crux of the millennials.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:17:21 And how does that change what and how people, younger people want to drink?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:17:26 It\u2019s a different product. So you have to start over. And that\u2019s the hard part for the wine industry. You have to start over with the occasion and then the need, and then know everything about that need in that occasion. And there\u2019s not a lot of what we do today that that\u2019s that relevant to that group.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:17:41 So I would encourage folks to not do what they\u2019ve historically done and just almost like doing zero based budgeting. Just start over.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:17:49 And what was the key insight that came to you in terms of what these consumers are looking for?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:17:55 You have to understand the different occasions. So for example, one of the occasions for younger people is pre-party. You don\u2019t see a lot of 65 year olds pre-party. But in the 20 year old, in the 30 year old there\u2019s a lot of pre-party.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:18:08 Is this drinking before they go out or like having a drink at home? Okay.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:18:12 Yeah. And if you just think about value and time and money and all that kind of stuff, it\u2019s expensive sometimes for sure.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:18:18 Once they get.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:18:19 Out of the money so they have drinks first and then they might have 1 or 2 drinks if they go to a bar or a bar or whatever. So pre-party is a very high energy occasion that wine has an incredibly low share in. And that has to be convenient. It has to be bought last minute.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:18:34 It has to have certain characteristics and packaging and the retail locations they go, everything is everything\u2019s different. So that\u2019s what I mean. You got to start over.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:18:41 Well I was going to talk about this a little later, but since we\u2019re on it you introduced mix. Yeah. Maybe tell us a bit about maximum. Oh, see, I\u2019m not that generation. I didn\u2019t get it. Maximum. Right. I\u2019m thinking. Oh, Roman numerals. What is it, anyway? Ancient. Tell us a bit about these wines. What they are, the flavors, that sort of thing.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:19:06 Sure. It\u2019s built for obviously the pre-party occasion that I was talking about. It\u2019s very different flavors for that age group. They want bold flavors. They want intensity. They want smooth drink ability. Shopping wise, they have different retail patterns so that they\u2019re probably not going to certain stores that we would go to, and they\u2019re going generally last minute. And they want something that\u2019s very convenient for that particular time of day. And they want something that\u2019s affordable.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:19:33 Remember, these are folks in university or in their first job. So their disposable income is quite compressed, right.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:19:38 Okay. And so these wines I remember correctly do they have about 16% alcohol.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:19:43 They have 16% alcohol. And again that\u2019s recognizing not what a 62 year old would say. It\u2019s recognizing what a pre-party is and what it commands.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:19:54 Maybe instead of a spirit or whatever, they would go with more of this kind of product.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:20:00 That\u2019s correct. Everything we do is different for that particular execution. It\u2019s different ways of doing marketing, different ways of doing advertising. It\u2019s a lot of mostly done through influencers and ambassadors. That\u2019s a very different thing than what wines used to. Yes, even the campaign tagline is nothing you would ever see from wine. So the line is hard launch the night and I think you get it so right goes it goes way upstream into the pre-party occasion, but it\u2019s hard launch. The night is also different from wine in the sense that there\u2019s an energy associated with that particular occasion.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:20:38 The wine industry never talks about energy, ever. But when you go to other categories food and beverage, they do talk about energy. So this is a high energy occasion, which is why hard Launch of the night gives you that kind of feeling. Of what happens when you show up in the. In the pre-party.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:20:53 That\u2019s fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. You definitely would not see that as a tagline. It might be like, settle down now, right?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:21:00 Yeah. That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:21:01 And there are flavored wines, right?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:21:04 That\u2019s right. They come with three flavors and they\u2019re very, again, very bold. Okay. But extremely drinkable, but nothing you would see in wine flavors. These are flavors not associated. Why? They might be flavors more associated with reds, for example.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:21:16 Ready to drink whiskeys, vodkas and that. So on. So what are the three flavors? Okay. No, I\u2019ve got them here. BlackBerry. Yeah. We\u2019re not the target, John. Let\u2019s see. Lemonade and peach.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:21:29 Yep. Okay.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:21:30 You know, they\u2019re right behind me. I could have just looked.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:21:32 That\u2019s okay. So on the surface, wine engagement looks steady, but there\u2019s a quieter shift underneath. What are you seeing with wine overall? Not just these drinkers here.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:21:45 Yeah, certainly. penetration is about the same and that hasn\u2019t changed that much. And that might surprise some people. But what has changed is the consumption. Within that penetration, there are fewer occasions and it\u2019s fewer drinks consume per occasion. And it\u2019s the change is much bigger for younger people, and it\u2019s much more muted as you go up in the age category.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:22:06 Okay, so drinking less but better somewhat.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:22:11 Yeah. Yeah. And and you know it\u2019s in the younger generation. It\u2019s it\u2019s driven mostly by affordability. Again with we didn\u2019t have the kind of rents that they have to pay. We didn\u2019t have to we didn\u2019t imagine if we had those grocery bills when we were that age. It\u2019s it\u2019s actually really tough. And so part of what\u2019s going on in the category is that the affordability is suppressing consumption.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:22:32 A lot of that is cyclical because we\u2019re in a hyperinflation recessionary period right now, and people are really pulling back. And you can even feel it this summer more so than any other time. And so 48% of the reduction in the industry is associated purely with affordability. So that\u2019s cyclical. And that will come back okay. But 40% is lifestyle in moderation. And that\u2019s where the wine industry needs to reinvent itself for a multiple occasions. And then the part that come over October is going after 8% of the consumption reduction is actually just less social occasions, therefore less drinking. And that\u2019s another factoid around the ripple effect it has on different categories of people are going out. And of course restaurants and others would also feel some of that.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:23:21 Sure. And so domestic and premium wine are feeling this the most. And that\u2019s of course in your backyard. How does this change the urgency sense of urgency for you?<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:23:31 I think we\u2019re behind. The whole category is behind. And so it needs hyper acceleration and it needs hyper acceleration.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:23:38 On trying to be relative again. Looking at again those occasions, the size of those occasions and the growth of the occasions And charting your course as to where those occasions are going to be, not where they are now. I think it drives a certain boldness to be different. We I think we have a very big challenge in our category that there is so much sameness. If there are 40,000 different wine SKUs in the world, probably 35,000 look exactly alike. And and I think we have to be bold to make sure that every brand we have is really different than all of the other brands in order to earn the attention of people, and then the loyalty of people to assuming the product delivers. We have to look at other categories. We can\u2019t keep looking internally at wine. We\u2019ve got to look not even at alcohol categories. I\u2019m talking about food categories and beverage categories. And to go with that. So that\u2019s half of one side. And the other half of that coin is we do have to get rid of some muscle memory.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:24:39 There are things that we think we have to do because it\u2019s wine and it\u2019s actually it\u2019s a bit of a barrier. It\u2019s a bit of a mental block.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:24:46 Give us an example of that.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:24:48 Again, if you\u2019re going to try to like our industry would think about no ALC or low ALC. And we would obsess about that because we looked at beer and when we\u2019re in wine. And so that\u2019s the big that\u2019s the big win. But our Tara, we didn\u2019t think that way. We\u2019ve been watching food and beverage much more than we\u2019ve been watching the alcohol category. And so we went down the road of cliffy salt. But that was about 20 years ago where that was really big. But in the last 20 years, everything in food and beverage has been about sugar.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:25:19 Yes.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:25:20 Now there\u2019s a recent protein trend, but that\u2019s still the number one thing. And so that would be a good example of if you just keep looking with the shackle of we have to do this and let\u2019s just take the alcohol or lower the alcohol.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:25:33 That\u2019s our product you\u2019re missing. You\u2019re missing the bigger trend and point out there trends.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:25:37 Yes, absolutely. And since you\u2019ve brought it up a natural segue, you\u2019ve got Basque, which is your zero sugar wine. There are also VQA wines. So when. Tell us a little bit more about these wines.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:25:52 This is for someone who is really paying attention to what\u2019s in their glass, but also what\u2019s in their fridge. Generally is trying to watch sugar for a whole bunch of different reasons. And so if you\u2019re watching what\u2019s going on there and you\u2019re reading all the health studies, the sugar has some immediate issues and that it has some very secondary issues it\u2019s connected to, and it could be as extreme as diabetes, and it could be other things about your current health. And we try to find a formula that answered that and surprised people. And the surprise people is when you come up with something like no alcohol or no cal or locale or etc. etc., etc. in this case, zero sugar added, people are going to assume it\u2019s not going to taste very well, and so we have to find a way to get to them.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:26:42 And this involved tons and tons of sampling so that the very first taste created the convert. And that was our mission. Every person who tries it needs to convert and repeat. And it\u2019s a brand that has a very high repeat rate and a very high acceptance rate, and it has really taken off.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:27:00 And I can say personally, I\u2019ve tried them and they are delicious. And people think no sugar, but it\u2019s the natural fruit sweetness that\u2019s in there with no sugar. So you still get those flavours of apricot or. Yeah. So it is surprising, but that\u2019s well done.<\/p>\n John Boynton 00:27:17 It\u2019s still premium right? It\u2019s still locally crafted and it\u2019s still an everyday drinking wine. So it\u2019s not too expensive and so perfect for come over October.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:27:25 Sure. Absolutely. Well there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with John. Here are my takeaways. Number one, how can a bottle of wine become.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:27:40 The.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:27:40 Invitation and a chance to slow down the moment and create real space for conversation. John notes that wine isn\u2019t the point of getting together.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:27:50 Conversation is. So what is the role of wine? He explains that wine separates itself from everything else. Wine is not only the excuse, but also the invitation, and it\u2019s also a reason to accept the invitation. It\u2019s a signal that I haven\u2019t seen you in a while and I want to see you. So it\u2019s a message in itself. It\u2019s a speed adjudicator, he says. It is a creation of the conversation because it slows things down, and wine sometimes has its own conversation that goes beyond it. There\u2019s a story behind the bottle and it helps, therefore, in memory creation as well as he says. I don\u2019t think a lot of people remember text messages and emails that they did last week, but you will remember that bottle of wine you had when you got together for a few hours with someone you hadn\u2019t seen in a couple of months? Number two, why does the wine industry need to look beyond itself to win back consumers? So domestic and premium wine are experiencing a consumption reduction? How does this change the sense of urgency for John? He explains that the whole wine category is behind and it needs hyper acceleration on trying to be relevant again.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:29:10 So they need to look at occasions the size of those occasions and the growth of occasions, and charting your course as to where occasions are going to be, not just where they are now. He thinks that should drive a boldness to be different. The wine industry, he observes, has a very big challenge in that there\u2019s a lot of similarity. If there are 40,000 different wine SKUs in the world, probably 35,000, he estimates look almost exactly alike. He believes the wine industry has to be bold, to be sure that every brand is really different from all of the other brands, in order to earn the attention of people and their loyalty. He also believes in looking at other categories, not just internally at wine. So to look at food categories and other beverage categories for inspiration. And finally, how can wine become more relevant to younger consumers? Gen-Z and millennial drinkers are pulling back the hardest. John\u2019s read, though, is that they haven\u2019t fallen out of love with wine. But what\u2019s happening? Well, as he explains, younger people today have less time and less money.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:30:26 They\u2019re also living a digital life, so they\u2019re going out less often. Their friends are generally from a wider circle, but they\u2019re more acquaintances versus close friends. So that all leads to the fact that they have very different occasions and needs. Wines been great at filling different occasions in the past, but a lot of those associated with younger drinkers are just not where wine is relevant, and that is the challenge for today\u2019s wineries. If you missed episode 17, go back and take a listen. I chat with Ontario\u2019s Best Sommelier, Emily Pierce Barbosa, about tasting wine like a detective. I\u2019ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.<\/p>\n Emily Pierce 00:31:15 So with the idea of deductive tasting and just going down the path and asking yourself questions like, can I see through this one? Is it a thick skin grape? Is it a thin skinned grape? If I can see through it, it\u2019s not going to be stressed or Cabernet. It\u2019s going to be like your Pinot noir, your Grenache, Gamay, things like that.<\/p>\n Emily Pierce 00:31:32 And so very, very, very often I have no idea what\u2019s in the glass. Maybe more often than not, but it\u2019s just moving through all these questions. It\u2019s sort of like a detective sifting through evidence to solve a case, putting all the clues together, and then at the end, just taking a big breath and saying what you think it is.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:31:56 Do you know someone who\u2019d be interested in learning more about come over October and the wine industry changes and trends? Please let them know about the podcast. Email them or text them now while you\u2019re thinking about it. It\u2019s easy to find the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. Just tell them to search for that title or my name Natalie MacLean wine on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, their favorite podcast app or they can listen to the show on my website at Natalie MacLean. Just email me if you have a tip, question, or if you\u2019d like to win one of six drinks books I have to give away. I\u2019d also love to hear your thoughts on this episode? Or if you\u2019ve read my book or are listening to it.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:32:42 Email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. You won\u2019t want to miss next week when we continue our chat with John. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a wine you shared with a friend or neighbor whom you asked to come over this October.<\/p>\n Natalie MacLean 00:33:10 You don\u2019t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don\u2019t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean. Meet me here next week. Cheers!<\/p>\nJoin me on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube Live Video<\/h3>\n
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