{"id":322856,"date":"2025-11-28T07:20:50","date_gmt":"2025-11-28T07:20:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/peraltafinancing.com\/american-history\/interview-with-nursing-clio-prize-2025-winners-lisa-smith-and-cathy-mcclive-nursing-clio\/"},"modified":"2025-11-28T07:20:50","modified_gmt":"2025-11-28T07:20:50","slug":"interview-with-nursing-clio-prize-2025-winners-lisa-smith-and-cathy-mcclive-nursing-clio","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=322856","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Nursing Clio Prize 2025 Winners, Lisa Smith and Cathy McClive \u2013 Nursing Clio"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div>\n<h3 class=\"blog-title\">Interview with Nursing Clio Prize 2025 Winners, Lisa Smith and Cathy McClive<\/h3>\n<div class=\"m-post-byline-with-avatar\" style=\"display:flex; align-items:center; flex-wrap:wrap; white-space:preserve\">\n<style><![CDATA[.m-post-avatars{ display: flex; margin-right: 10px; }.m-post-avatar{ border-radius: 100%; z-index: 1; }.m-post-avatar img { margin: 0 !important; border-radius: 100% }.m-post-avatar:not(:first-of-type){ margin-left: -7px }.m-post-avatar:nth-child(1){ z-index:1}]]><\/style>\n<div id=\"\" class=\"m-post-avatars\">\n<div class=\"m-post-avatar\" data-author-id=\"486\" data-author-type=\"user\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"\" src=\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/a8b4cacb28a3b49115a5b873027b36c24ee93fc734cded9d9036b10bdfd81d53?s=36&amp;d=blank&amp;r=pg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/a8b4cacb28a3b49115a5b873027b36c24ee93fc734cded9d9036b10bdfd81d53?s=72&amp;d=blank&amp;r=pg 2x\" class=\"avatar avatar-36 photo\" height=\"36\" width=\"36\" itemprop=\"image\"\/><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<hr\/>\n<p>Nursing Clio\u2019s sixth annual best article prize competition was awarded to Cathy McClive, Ben Weider Professor in French Revolutionary Studies and Professor of History at Florida State University, and Lisa Smith, Senior Lecturer in History and Faculty Dean of the Humanities at the University of Essex, for their article, <a href=\"https:\/\/academic.oup.com\/fh\/article\/38\/1\/11\/7585391\">\u201cWomen at the Centre: Medical Entrepreneurialism and \u2018La Grande M\u00e9dicine\u2019 in Eighteenth-Century Lyon,\u201d<\/a> published in <em>French History.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>In the article, McClive and Smith recover the healthcare practice of two Lyonnais women, Marie Magdeleine Grand and Marie Fiansons, who operated a successful business tending to their local community. Gleaning insights from serendipitously preserved documents in the Municipal Archives of Lyon and the Departmental Archives of Rh\u00f4ne, McClive and Smith argue that Grand and Fianson offer an illustrative example of women practitioners labouring not \u201con the margin\u201d as the historiography often claims but rather \u201cat the centre\u201d of everyday medical activities.<\/p>\n<p>I had the pleasure of discussing the process, surprises, influences, and even friendship that went into the article\u2019s creation.<\/p>\n<hr\/>\n<p><strong>Jakob: <\/strong>A well-deserved congratulations on your win! This article appeared as a part of <em>French History\u2019s<\/em> 2024 special issue celebrating Colin Jones.<sup><sup><a id=\"post-35717-footnote-ref-0\" href=\"#post-35717-footnote-0\">[1]<\/a><\/sup><\/sup> Was writing as part of this collection a divergence for you? Could you tell readers about where you see this article fitting into both of your larger research agendas?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lisa and Cathy:<\/strong> This article is not really a step away from our larger research agendas, but more of a circling back to where we started as PhD students, who became friends through the subject of early modern women\u2019s health and bodies. Since the article was written in response to Colin Jones\u2019 retirement \u2013 Colin was Cathy\u2019s supervisor at Warwick (she also co-edited the special issue) and Lisa\u2019s external examiner during her studies at Essex \u2013 we were thinking back to his work on women practitioners. When we started our PhDs, we were propelled very much by a desire to make women visible, whether as patients or practitioners, which continues to frame all of our work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jakob: <\/strong>Speaking of making visible, as a fellow eighteenth-century French historian, I am just so awed by the insights that your article gives to readers about the quotidian experiences of Lyon\u2019s urban community. What are some of the other significant aspects of the argument or article itself? How has this work changed your thinking going forward?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cathy and Lisa: <\/strong>There has been a real binary in how we see women\u2019s medical practices: elite\/folk healers; men\/women; domestic\/paid. We have often assumed that women were just scraping by, picking up small bits within a care economy or undertaking the work charitably, rather than being entrepreneurial. This way of thinking has situated women medical practitioners (and sometimes working women in general) within a shadow economy or treated them as exceptional in some way. Our work shows two women who were actually central within the medical world and suggests ways in which other women, beyond the elite or religious women, may have been providing medical care. The most remarkable thing about the women in our article is that their paperwork survived \u2013 it is uncommon for such records to have remained \u2013 not their everyday medical activities.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jakob: <\/strong>I think I speak for most every historian (or researcher with a taste of the archives) that there is nothing quite like the thrill of an exciting archival discovery because of the remarkable contingencies of history. In the article, you both talk about the numerous happenstances that seemed to contribute to the preservation of these women\u2019s work. Could you tell us more about some of the surprising things you encountered while working in this article?<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_35720\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-35720\" style=\"width: 269px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><img loading=\"lazy\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-35720\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/nursingclio.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/default.jpg?resize=269%2C405&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"A weirdly adult-looking human baby that seems to be wearing a wrinkly deflated pumpkin, include its top, but this is really the alleged caul. \" width=\"269\" height=\"405\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/nursingclio.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/default.jpg?resize=269%2C405&amp;ssl=1 269w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/nursingclio.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/default.jpg?resize=479%2C723&amp;ssl=1 479w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/nursingclio.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/default.jpg?w=760&amp;ssl=1 760w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 269px) 100vw, 269px\"\/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-35720\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">An engraving of a baby born in Bresse, France with \u201can extraordinary skin\u2026 that entirely covered him to the extremities of his hands and feet, his face excepted\u201d. Presumably a caul, or amniotic sac. (<a href=\"https:\/\/wellcomecollection.org\/works\/ju3z4xvj\/items\">Wellcome Collection<\/a>)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p><strong>Cathy:<\/strong> Finding a caul in the archives! Absolutely. I\u2019ve never seen a caul before, but I knew what it was immediately, even before I read the label, because it is so well preserved. It was wrapped in paper in the collection of paperwork collected by the city\u2019s consular court, tucked away along with a number of other objects documenting nearly thirty years of the women\u2019s medical commercialism.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lisa:<\/strong> \u201c[Finding the caul] must have been an amazing moment, though I have only seen the photographs\u2026 The other surprising thing is how the paperwork kept by Grand and Fiansons still survives, as there were so many reasons for it to have disappeared along the way. It is the serendipity that it survived and that Cathy accidentally noticed it (she went through the inventory by chance while waiting for another document), and then she later realized it corresponded to another set of papers in another archive. It is very rare to find such detailed material on women\u2019s everyday medical practice \u2013 and no wonder, with all the accidents it took for this one to become visible in the first place!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jakob: <\/strong>Though its occurrences are increasingly common, co-authorship is still fairly rare in historical scholarship. The two of you, as you said, have been intellectual compatriots since you were in graduate school. Can you tell us a bit about the process and your experiences with co-writing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lisa:<\/strong> I have done a lot of co-authorship and can attest that the process and experience change with every group of writers \u2013 or, as we have been finding as we tackle another Grand and Fiansons article, for different projects. But it is always a deeply enriching process.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cathy and Lisa:<\/strong> For us, it was a process of regular conversations about the documents, about ideas, about readings, and about our daily life. It was through conversations that the writing began to take shape and also kept us on top of the work during some challenging personal times. Sometimes as a writer it can be hard to get started or to keep going, but the friendship side of the writing gave us extra impetus to stick to the commitment \u2013 both in terms of not letting each other down, but also as a way of giving us good reasons to show up! We sweated through the writing, as well as laughed a lot. But the writing became a joyful activity and respite from other cares, maybe even therapy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jakob: <\/strong>Well it all comes together seamlessly. I know all of our readers will be excitedly awaiting the next article you two write on Grand and Fiansons, as well as all the other irons you have in the fire! Congratulations again, to you both, for this wonderful and important article.<\/p>\n<section id=\"sources\">\n<h4>Notes<\/h4>\n<ol>\n<li id=\"post-35717-footnote-0\">With a career spanning decades, Colin Jones has authored more than twenty books and more than fifty articles on topics ranging from early modern medicine, the origins of the French Revolution, and the history of Paris. His work as a scholar and educator has earned him standing as one of most important historians of France, particularly of the long eighteenth century. For an overview of his career, see Sarah Easterby-Smith, Cathy McClive, Richard Taws, Charles Walton, \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/academic.oup.com\/fh\/article\/38\/1\/2\/7513101\">Colin Jones: Fox and Hedgehog historian of France<\/a>,\u201d <em>French History<\/em> 38, no.1 (2024): 2\u201310. <a href=\"#post-35717-footnote-ref-0\">\u2191<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/section>\n<p><!-- MOLONGUI AUTHORSHIP PLUGIN 5.1.0 --><br \/>\n<!-- https:\/\/www.molongui.com\/wordpress-plugin-post-authors --><\/p>\n<div class=\"m-a-box \" data-box-layout=\"slim\" data-box-position=\"below\" data-multiauthor=\"false\" data-author-id=\"486\" data-author-type=\"user\" data-author-archived=\"\">\n<div class=\"m-a-box-container\">\n<div class=\"m-a-box-tab m-a-box-content m-a-box-profile\" data-profile-layout=\"layout-1\" data-author-ref=\"user-486\" itemscope=\"\" itemid=\"https:\/\/nursingclio.org\/author\/jakob-burnham\/\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/Person\">\n<div class=\"m-a-box-content-middle\">\n<div class=\"m-a-box-item m-a-box-avatar\" data-source=\"local\"><a class=\"m-a-box-avatar-url\" href=\"https:\/\/nursingclio.org\/author\/jakob-burnham\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" alt=\"\" src=\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/a8b4cacb28a3b49115a5b873027b36c24ee93fc734cded9d9036b10bdfd81d53?s=90&amp;d=blank&amp;r=pg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/a8b4cacb28a3b49115a5b873027b36c24ee93fc734cded9d9036b10bdfd81d53?s=180&amp;d=blank&amp;r=pg 2x\" class=\"avatar avatar-90 photo\" height=\"90\" width=\"90\" itemprop=\"image\"\/><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"m-a-box-item m-a-box-data\">\n<div class=\"m-a-box-bio\" itemprop=\"description\">\n<p>Dr. Jakob Burnham is a Clinical Assistant Professor of History at the University of North Texas, and currently serves as an editor for Nursing Clio. He received his Ph.D. in Early Modern European History from Georgetown University in May 2024. Dr. Burnham\u2019s research centers on French colonialism in the Indian Ocean during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. He is particularly interested in the complicated intersections of social practice and colonial development, which he explores through a variety of themes including, medicine, domesticity, and slavery.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color\" style=\"border-style:none;border-width:0px;margin-top:32px;margin-bottom:32px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" style=\"margin-bottom:24px\"\/>\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center\" style=\"margin-top:4px;margin-bottom:10px\">Discover more from Nursing Clio<\/h3>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center\" style=\"margin-top:10px;margin-bottom:10px;font-size:15px\">Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Interview with Nursing Clio Prize 2025 Winners, Lisa Smith and Cathy McClive Nursing Clio\u2019s sixth annual best article prize competition was awarded to Cathy McClive, Ben Weider Professor in French Revolutionary Studies and Professor of History at Florida State University, and Lisa Smith, Senior Lecturer in History and Faculty Dean of the Humanities at the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":322857,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[12032],"tags":[3898,15852,5727,5464,150096,15851,4211,1358,5309],"dealstore":[],"offerexpiration":[],"class_list":["post-322856","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-american-history","tag-cathy","tag-clio","tag-interview","tag-lisa","tag-mcclive","tag-nursing","tag-prize","tag-smith","tag-winners"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.4 - 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