{"id":283730,"date":"2025-06-09T14:05:33","date_gmt":"2025-06-09T14:05:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/peraltafinancing.com\/apple-2\/taskrabbit-ceo-ania-smith-on-ai-automation-and-the-future-of-work\/"},"modified":"2025-06-09T14:05:33","modified_gmt":"2025-06-09T14:05:33","slug":"taskrabbit-ceo-ania-smith-on-ai-automation-and-the-future-of-work","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730","title":{"rendered":"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work"},"content":{"rendered":"


\n<\/p>\n

\n
\n

Today, I\u2019m talking with Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith. Taskrabbit is one of the original gig worker platforms that\u2019s really focused on work you might need done in your home; it\u2019s been around for nearly 20 years, and you might be surprised to know that the core product has not changed all that much. Taskers can sign up to offer services like assembling furniture, mounting TVs, and helping people move, and they get to set their own prices for that work, which makes it a more of a marketplace than something like Uber.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

As you\u2019ll hear Ania say, the difference between Taskrabbit and something like Thumbtack or Angi is that Taskrabbit manages the entire interaction from end to end \u2014 it\u2019s not just a directory but also where people can leave reviews, get customer service, and manage all their payments. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n
\n
\n
\n
\n
\n
\n
\"\"<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n

Listen to Decoder<\/em>, a show hosted by The Verge<\/em>\u2019s Nilay Patel about big ideas \u2014 and other problems. Subscribe here<\/a>!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Ania describes all this as matching supply and demand, and we talked a lot about where that supply of labor comes from and what it might mean that there are more Taskers than ever right now. That feels like a bit of a recession indicator to me \u2014 that\u2019s a lot of people looking for additional income \u2014 but Ania had a more measured view and pointed out that there are some Taskers earning a very comfortable living on the platform. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Taskrabbit is also now notably owned by Ikea, which has a lot of interest in how the platform grows and what kinds of services it can integrate into the experience of being an Ikea customer. Assembling Ikea furniture is a core Taskrabbit service, after all, and I wanted to know if there was any pressure to specialize that service or prioritize Ikea work over other companies.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

But if you\u2019ve been listening to Decoder<\/em> recently, you know that the heart of this conversation was about the next wave of user interfaces \u2014 particularly, the next wave of AI assistants that can book services like Taskrabbit, DoorDash, Uber for you. Google actually gave a demo of one of its agents going through Taskrabbit\u2019s website a couple weeks ago, and I\u2019m very curious how all these services are thinking about having those kinds of tools step in between them and their customers.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

After all, if you\u2019re just asking a voice assistant to get someone to help you mount a TV, you\u2019re probably not using the Taskrabbit website yourself. That\u2019s a big change, and Ania and I talked about it for a while \u2014 you\u2019ll hear her say Taskrabbit\u2019s end-to-end focus is the differentiator here and that other platforms will find it hard to compete with that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Okay: Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith. Here we go.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Ania Smith, you are the CEO of Taskrabbit. Welcome to <\/strong>Decoder<\/em><\/strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I\u2019m very excited to talk to you. It feels like there\u2019s a lot of change coming to the service economy on our phones. There\u2019s a lot of change in the economy in general that is interesting to talk about. Let\u2019s start at the very beginning. TaskRabbit has been around for a while. You\u2019ve been the CEO for about five years. How would you describe Taskrabbit today? How should people think about it?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So it\u2019s pretty similar to what it has been. We connect people who need help around the home with a vast network of highly skilled and reliable Taskers who can help you with cleaning, mounting your TV, assembling your furniture, or a range of other tasks around the home. And I think we do that pretty well.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Taskrabbit was founded in 2008. Many things have happened since then. We\u2019ve gone from a desktop paradigm to a mobile paradigm. Competitors have shown up. There\u2019s Fiverr, which I think of as where you go to get a cheap logo. Do you think of Taskrabbit as expansive into digital services? You\u2019re describing hanging TVs. Is it more of a physical services platform?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Today it is, and that\u2019s really our focus. It is our vision to become the number one marketplace for home services specifically. There\u2019s a lot of things to get done around the home, everything from putting down mulch and cleaning your gutters to mowing your lawn. Then there\u2019s so much to do inside the home. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There\u2019s also a lot to do with big moments in your life, when you think about starting a family or moving. Moving is a perfect example. You have to clean your old place, clean the new place, pack, unpack, find an actual moving service, mount TVs, assemble. So, there are a lot of use cases where these services are still very much needed.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

One thing that\u2019s interesting about that market in particular is that there\u2019s no shortage of gardening companies, moving companies, or people on Craigslist who will hang your TV for you. There are AV installation companies at the high end. Do you want the companies who are doing customer discovery on the platform or do you want individuals?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Today we definitely focus on individuals. We\u2019re getting to a point where half of workers in the US are actually gig economy workers. That means many things, right? Not all of them are doing furniture assembly, but many are using these platforms to find additional work and to have the flexibility to transition between different stages of life. That\u2019s what we focus on, and those are the people who we want to help. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We\u2019re here to provide a meaningful income to folks who need it. There are a lot of people who may be between jobs or students who have time on weekends or during the summers, and there\u2019s a lot of opportunity to make a pretty good living on Taskrabbit. An average hourly pay is close to $50 an hour, and in some markets, it\u2019s well over $50. So, there are a lot of great opportunities to make a meaningful income for yourself and your family.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

When you say meaningful income at $50 per hour, that\u2019s not a full-time work week at $50 an hour, right? That\u2019s piecework. How much are people making on the high end on Taskrabbit?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We have people making well over $200,000 a year. It\u2019s been a couple years now, but there was a Tasker I spoke with who was a student at NYU. One of his friends was moving and using Taskrabbit. He had never heard of Taskrabbit, so he looked it up. This was 2022 or 2023, and he said, \u201cHey, maybe I can do this while I look for a job.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So, he got smart and figured out how to mount TVs fairly quickly just by learning it on YouTube and really optimized his jobs. He could sometimes mount as many as three TVs in an hour in Manhattan. This is all he did for his first year after graduation, and he made well over $200,000 a year.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Is that sustainable? I know a lot of people in the industry who have AV installation companies, for example. They go from that to \u201cI\u2019m going to design you a home theater system\u201d to \u201cI\u2019m going to sell you the components of that at some high margin.\u201d That\u2019s how you build your business. But that\u2019s different from \u201cI\u2019m going to install a lot of TVs every single day for the rest of my life.\u201d Is something like that totally sustainable on Taskrabbit?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

No, but how many people have the same job for the rest of their lives? We have Taskers who\u2019ve been here for five, six, or 10 years, which is great. Sometimes they leave, they come back, and they leave again. It just really depends on what\u2019s going on in their lives. We want to make sure that we provide the opportunity. If people do want to come and earn an income, we\u2019re here to help them do that. For us, that means getting as many jobs as possible so that we can make sure our Taskers have jobs that they can do.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So, $200,000 is the high end. It\u2019s a great, shiny number. What\u2019s the median?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I don\u2019t think that I know the median. It really depends on the market. There\u2019s obviously liquidity and density questions, and it also depends on the category. Many of our Taskers are not working what you would consider full time. They are doing this as a stop measure in between gigs or just in the evenings. So, we don\u2019t really track the median earnings because everyone has such a specific and different use case. What we think about is what are your weekly targets for earning if you want to work as much as possible in a week,and how can we help you reach those targets? We find that that\u2019s what Taskers really resonate with.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

What are the biggest markets for you?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

New York City is by far our biggest market, and it has been probably since we launched there [in 2011]. But we have a lot of growth in our secondary and tertiary markets. Also, we\u2019re now in eight countries. London has become a huge market for us, which is really exciting to see. Toronto is a big market as well. Obviously, the Bay Area is still our home, and so we have really great brand equity there. LA is a big market. We\u2019re now in hundreds and hundreds of cities across the globe. It\u2019s fun since sometimes we get into competitions to see which city can grow faster, but they all have different trajectories.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Is the action mostly in cities?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Today, yes. As you know, we\u2019re owned by Ikea<\/a>, so we also definitely think a lot about how we can support the Ikea business and support Ikea customers who want their furniture to be assembled and delivered. In the US, we also do delivery for Ikea, and so we make sure that we can cover all Ikea stores. Most of them are not located in urban city centers, and they\u2019re much bigger in Europe. So, a market like Germany has 50 to 60 stores, which is the same as the number of stores in the US but the US is triple or quadruple the size of Germany. It\u2019s much more densely populated, and we want to make sure that we cover all the Ikea markets.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I want to come back to the Ikea relationship because I think that is super interesting. It\u2019s been several years now and I\u2019m very curious how that has developed. But I want to stay focused on the cities for one second. I lived in New York City for a long time. Now I live in the suburbs. When I moved to the suburbs, I just started buying more and more tools. It\u2019s just a thing that happens when you move to the suburbs. I didn\u2019t have the space to have a bunch of tools and capabilities in my apartment in New York City. Is that why there are bigger markets in the cities? People just don\u2019t have the stuff or the skills?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I think it has to do a lot with market density and liquidity. You want to be closer to the jobs, but I would say the suburbs are our fastest growing markets overall compared to cities because there is just a lot of opportunity. When we moved to the suburbs, my husband was also very keen to buy tools and start doing work around the house, and that didn\u2019t turn out very well for us. Maybe it turns out well for others, but we still have Taskers here quite often because there\u2019s just a lot of work to do. You have more square footage, and by definition, every single additional square foot will require more work. So, we see a lot of potential in the suburbs as well.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

One of the things that is interesting to me about the broader economy, as you\u2019re describing it, is the people who want to fill their time with work. They want to make more money and see the opportunity and that liquidity in the market. But that supply of effort requires time, right? People\u2019s time isn\u2019t being filled with their full-time jobs. They\u2019re between jobs or they might be out of a job. Do you see a correlation between the health of the overall economy and the Tasker supply?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We do. For around the last three years, we\u2019ve definitely seen more supply than we can handle on the platform. We now have waitlists in many cities because we don\u2019t want to onboard a Tasker and then not be able to provide them with jobs. It\u2019s sort of a false premise. I want to make sure that if you are on our platform, there\u2019s work for you to do. As the economy has changed over the last few years \u2014 especially over the last couple of years as we\u2019ve seen a bit more struggle \u2014 we\u2019ve had thousands and thousands of Taskers applying every year. It\u2019s 15 to 20 percent more than the year before.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Does that feel like a recession indicator to you?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I\u2019m not an economist, and I read all of this stuff just like you do. If you do read that stuff, we should\u2019ve had a recession last year and one the year before, and those predictions turn out to be wrong. So, I think the word is \u201cuncertainty.\u201d We just don\u2019t know because at least over the last two years, we understood what was going on a little bit more. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There\u2019s just a lot of uncertainty overall. It\u2019s very hard to predict what\u2019s going to happen with tariffs, with bond yields, with interest rates, with the housing market. All I can say is we see an increase in Tasker applications. I\u2019m not sure that that\u2019s an indication that a recession is coming.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Do you see an increase in the number of people who are buying services from Taskrabbit? Because that\u2019s the other side of the equation. Is demand also going up? <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Demand is going up, and that\u2019s great to see. There\u2019s a bit of a caveat to that, and it\u2019s not just Taskrabbit. There are, as you mentioned, multiple players. For all of us, demand is going up. We\u2019re still such a small portion of the overall market and its overall possibilities. Most people still assemble their own furniture, put up their own TVs, and clean their own houses. Even though we see a lot of growth, there\u2019s still so much opportunity to continue growing. Even after 10 to 15 years, it still feels like the market is quite nascent and services are still hard to figure out. There\u2019s a lot to think about, especially when it comes to how we match the perfect Tasker to the client.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I talk a lot about mounting. We have thousands of Taskers who can mount your TV, which is great, but can they be available on a Friday evening, mount it on a brick wall, and know how to hide the cables? That\u2019s a different skill than mounting a smaller TV on a normal wall. There\u2019s a lot of variables that go into an actual perfect job, and we still have a lot of work to do there. So, there\u2019s still a lot of growth opportunity.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I love that we\u2019re talking about mounting TVs so much because that\u2019s totally my wheelhouse, and <\/strong>The Verge<\/em><\/strong> audience knows that. I love talking about mounting TVs. This is great. We\u2019re just in the strike zone for me. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

How do you get that data? How do you evaluate who is good at mounting a TV above a fireplace versus just on a regular piece of drywall?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There are many ways. First of all, we now have AI models and tools that help us do this even faster, but the Taskers themselves tell us what capabilities they have, and we ask pretty structured questions and they can actually explain. But the bigger piece of data comes from their experience on the platform and having done similar tasks previously. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So if they tell us that they hung up this type of TV, we can use that data to match them to exactly that kind of job again. Of course, the clients provide reviews, so we can search automatically just with words, and there\u2019s then structured data and understanding their skill set. We take that all into consideration as we build out a more optimal match.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There\u2019s a relationship there between what customers are saying, the reviews they\u2019re leaving, whether they validate the skills, and the rates that Taskers can charge. Is that a correlation you can measure?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Taskers do set their own rates, which makes us very different from many of the other platforms that you see in the market. It\u2019s why so many Taskers actually love coming to Taskrabbit. If I had to summarize, they fully recognize how to set their rates, so we provide a lot of guidance to them. We take into consideration where you are based, what types of tasks you perform, your previous reviews. And then based on what the market is doing, we have a rate we could potentially suggest. They don\u2019t take our suggestions all the time, which is fine. They get to set their own rate.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

To bring it back to TV mounting \u2014 again, my favorite topic \u2014 you could pay less money for someone with fewer reviews and take on more risk that they might not know what they\u2019re doing. Or you might pay more money for someone who appears to know what they\u2019re doing. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

That feels like a pricing strategy that should exist on the platform. Whenever we talk about the gig economy, I get workers emailing us saying, \u201cI just want to know how to make more money.\u201d It feels like on Taskrabbit, the best way to do it is to just charge more because they can set the rates.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Of course, they can set the rates, but if they charge too much, the market is not going to reward them in a way they might want. So, you can definitely set your rates higher than what the market is willing to bear. If you\u2019re in a market where there are thousands of other Taskers, that\u2019ll manifest itself on the platform by having you essentially get fewer jobs if you\u2019re pricing much higher than what clients are willing to pay.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Do you see that rates go up over time for an individual Tasker or in aggregate?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Rates are going up in aggregate. They definitely have ebbed and flowed. It also matters a lot on the markets. Certain markets are obviously much higher than other markets. As we see trends with inflation and what\u2019s going on externally, the rates tend to follow because even supplies are becoming more expensive for Taskers. Then, their lives are becoming more expensive, so they need to charge more as well. So we do see, in aggregate, rates moving up.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Do you know the categories where rates have gone up the highest?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It really depends. Moving is one of our highest categories in terms of rates just because it\u2019s a more complex product. You can take hours to help someone move. In terms of total job number, that\u2019s obviously one of the higher ones. If you look at per hour numbers, it really varies by market. There isn\u2019t a single trend.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Then in aggregate, the rates across the platform are going up as well?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

If I\u2019m an individual Tasker there for five years, is it generally true that I can just charge more over time because I have more reviews and more data to back up that I know what I\u2019m doing?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I don\u2019t think that\u2019s generally true because if you have a lot more supply in that market, you\u2019re competing all the time. You can\u2019t just assume that you\u2019re going to be able to raise your rates over time. When people start up, it\u2019s a bit similar to Airbnb. When you\u2019re a brand new host, you come in and you have no reviews and no ratings. You want people to stay in your home and you want to do a good job, so you may price a bit lower just to make sure that you show up in search results and that people book your place.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

As you gain more experience, understand what your guests want, provide those things for them, and you continue to get really great reviews and really great feedback, you\u2019re able to raise the prices. But there\u2019s a limit as more and more Airbnbs show up in that market. So, there are many components that help you figure out how to price, and Airbnb, just like Taskrabbit, also helps hosts figure out what the right pricing schematic could be. But it\u2019s definitely not just a science.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Airbnb is a perfect example because it lets people set rates and it has all kinds of pricing tools. The other end is Uber, which doesn\u2019t let anyone set a price. If you\u2019re the best Uber driver or the worst, it kind of doesn\u2019t matter. Uber is just pricing for you. That dynamic has led to a lot of frustration over there. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It seems like the challenge in your case is that if you get good enough, get famous enough, and you\u2019ve had enough customers, you might leave the platform. You can just do more effective marketing and take a higher margin on your own. How do you make sure you don\u2019t have that graduation problem?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I mean you could, but it\u2019s not just about marketing. That\u2019s one of the biggest services that we provide, but it\u2019s also about scheduling. It\u2019s also about providing some level of protection so if things go wrong, we\u2019re there to help, and to provide consistent work. So yes, you can leave the platform and try to do this on your own. We hope that we provide such great service to our Taskers that it\u2019s harder for them to manage outside of the platform.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

For example, if you\u2019re working on multiple platforms or doing it on your own, you\u2019re managing your own Google Calendar. It\u2019s really hard to sync them all and think about how to manage your time appropriately. We can help do that for you. We can help figure it out and make sure that the tasks we\u2019re providing are the ones most matched to your skill set because we understand your history and we understand what the client wants. We can make sure that the tasks that are visible to you are the ones that are closer to your home. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So, there are a lot of additional services and benefits that we provide to the Taskers where they want to stay on a platform because it\u2019s easier for them. Also, if they set a rate of $100 per hour, they get to take home $100, which is very different from some of the other platforms.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Walk me through that. What\u2019s the revenue model for you? How do you make your money?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We make our money just like many platforms do, where we have to charge either one or both sides of the marketplace for the services we provide. I just explained some of the services for Taskers. We also provide a lot of services to the clients. The way things work on our platform for clients is when they book a job, they pay an additional service fee to Taskrabbit for everything from quality assurance and fraud to just being able to find the Tasker.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

You\u2019re saying these people have been vetted. They actually know how to hang the TV. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There\u2019s a lot of temptation in every marketplace like this to charge both sides. Why not charge the Taskers?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

To be fair, we haven\u2019t tried this. We haven\u2019t experimented with this at least since I\u2019ve been here. I believe this has been tested previously. I think that the Taskers themselves are keen to provide the best service that they can, and we want to make sure that we are a supply-based marketplace. As you well know, this thing doesn\u2019t work without supply, and you kind of have to start with supply. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

For me and for Taskrabbit, it\u2019s really important that we have the best quality supply, and we don\u2019t need to be charging the Taskers for that. We don\u2019t use a lead gen model. We are instead making sure that the entire job gets booked from the very beginning. We\u2019re there to hold it together with the client and the Tasker all the way through to payment as opposed to just giving a client a few names and saying, \u201cGo try them out.\u201d So, we believe that the service we\u2019re providing is ensuring that the job happens and it\u2019s high quality. For that, we primarily charge the client.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

You\u2019ve made a distinction here between what you call lead gen platforms where they charge for demand. You\u2019re a plumber, you want to get some customers, you would charge some service to get you some customers. Describe what you mean by lead gen and how Taskrabbit is different.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So I\u2019ll just talk about what Taskrabbit does and then perhaps compare it a bit to what other platforms do. Taskrabbit allows you to book a Tasker on a platform. I guess one word to think about what we do is \u201cshepherd\u201d this process all the way through. So, we make sure that the Tasker shows up, that the task actually gets done, and then we collect payment from you and the client. We then distribute that payment to the Tasker, make sure that you can write the review for the Tasker, and so on.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There\u2019s just a whole slew of things that happen, including the fact that if something goes wrong, you can pick up the phone and call or you can send us a message and say, \u201cHey, the Tasker\u2019s late,\u201d or, \u201cThe Tasker canceled, what should I do next?\u201d That\u2019s different than just getting the names of three or four potential providers and forcing you as a client to call each of them and start negotiating on a price or the time before the person comes and does whatever task. If something goes wrong, it\u2019s really just between you and that provider. With us, we\u2019re there all the way through until the job closes.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

When you say you\u2019re not a lead gen model, that feels really important. That\u2019s a principle that you need to hold onto because every other company that\u2019s similarly situated does sort of charge both sides. Substack, for example, takes 10 percent of everyone\u2019s earnings just to send emails. It would tell you it does a lot more than just send emails, <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

But it has a graduation problem. People leave the platform because you can get cheaper email distribution elsewhere. Substack has to build new services in order to justify its 10 percent for its highest-volume writers. You don\u2019t have that problem. Does that pressure just not exist or does that pressure exist and you keep it away?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Of course it exists. So Taskers definitely leave the platform, and clients leave the platform.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Sorry, I meant the pressure to charge both sides of the marketplace.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

No because again, I really feel that we don\u2019t need to charge the Taskers to make the money that we make. We provide enough services to both sides, but the client is willing to bear that cost and that has worked for us. It doesn\u2019t mean that it\u2019s always going to work and that our models and the way we match are always going to be the same. We\u2019re constantly experimenting. We are looking at other ways with many of the components that we\u2019re talking about because we have to continue evolving. But right now, this works for us. So today, we don\u2019t see changing the model to charge Taskers.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I think that brings me to Ikea. So Ikea bought Taskrabbit in 2017. It\u2019s a complicated transaction, but the upshot is Ikea now owns Taskrabbit. Do you think it\u2019s that ownership that protects you from the pressure to increase revenue by charging both sides of the marketplace? I feel like if you were a public company you might feel that pressure much more keenly.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It may be. I don\u2019t know. I\u2019ve never been a CEO of a public company. I can tell you that we have pretty big goals and high pressure from Ikea. Obviously, there is a component of stability that comes with having Ikea as a parent, and there are good and bad things about this. The good thing is we are not a public company nor VC-funded, and I don\u2019t have to worry about how things are going to evolve financially in the same way. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

But that can make you a bit more complacent. So we\u2019re trying hard to ensure that we have very ambitious goals and a very big vision so that the teams work really hard to continue to grow. There are many ways that we can drive the business forward, actually build growth capabilities. Charging Taskers is not one of them, but there are many other ways where we think we have a lot of opportunity in terms of growth.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Let me ask you the big <\/strong>Decoder<\/em><\/strong> question here, which is expressed in two ways. First, how is Taskrabbit structured inside of Ikea? How does that work?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Well, we operate very independently inside of Ikea. I report to a board and the board is made up of Ikea executives and external board members. We have three board meetings a year because Ikea works in tertials, not quarters.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

That\u2019s very Ikea to make up its <\/strong>own complicated Swedish word<\/strong><\/a>. It\u2019s perfect.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It\u2019s so Ikea, but it works for me. So, we meet three times a year, we set targets together, and that\u2019s it. Now, I do work very closely with Ikea in a different way \u2014 more in a business sense \u2014 where there was a lot of opportunity to ensure that Ikea customers have access to Taskrabbit. In some sense, Taskrabbit customers have access to Ikea, but Ikea has millions of people visiting its apps, its sites, and, of course, its big stores. We want to make sure that we have access to those customers in the best way possible.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So, we\u2019ve done some great things there. Just recently in the US \u2014 but we had done so elsewhere before \u2014 we made it so that it\u2019s much more seamless for Ikea customers to purchase, let\u2019s say, a desk and assembly all at the same time and pay for it at Ikea checkout versus having to go separately to the Taskrabbit app, try to put in the very fun Ikea furniture names, and then try to figure out how to get it assembled. That\u2019s a great example of how the two companies can really leverage their capabilities. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

At the end of the day, Ikea purchased Taskrabbit under the premise that there are some potential Ikea customers who don\u2019t want to be Ikea customers because they feel overwhelmed by the idea of putting together furniture. We want to be there to help to solve that problem, and I think we\u2019ve done a very good job there.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Let me connect that to the supply conversation we were just having. I\u2019ve put together a lot of Ikea furniture in my day. I feel like I\u2019m pretty good at it. That\u2019s a relatively specialized skill. Reading an Ikea instruction manual is like learning another language in many ways.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I think it depends who you ask. Some people are really good at this.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

By the way, one of my dream stories is that we go to a conference of flat-pack furniture designers and the Ikea people come in dressed all in black and everyone\u2019s like, \u201cIt\u2019s the Ikea designers.\u201d It\u2019s obviously the easiest to put together, but it\u2019s like a whole ecosystem.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It\u2019s a whole thing. But I can tell you, watching our Taskers put together Ikea furniture, it is impressive. They know the furniture, so they can do this so well inside and out. They just do it with such speed. You may be good, but you\u2019re never going to be an Ikea Tasker who is doing this day in and day out.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

That\u2019s kind of what I\u2019m getting at. It\u2019s a specialized skill. I would actually say putting together Ikea furniture is different than putting together the furniture you would buy at Target or Walmart. They\u2019re different companies with different styles. The way that things fit together is literally different. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Again, my dream story is that we find rival flat-pack design gangs and put them head to head. I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s how it works, it\u2019s just how it works in my brain. That\u2019s a specialized supply. Do you keep that pool aside and say, \u201cThese are the people who are best at assembling Ikea kitchens and we\u2019re going to make sure they\u2019re available to Ikea\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

They get to choose. I would say the majority of the Taskers who assemble Ikea furniture are also really good at assembling furniture from Wayfair, Target, and other places. They want to assemble furniture. The way it works on our platform is there\u2019s an Ikea assembly furniture category because, like you said, it\u2019s specialized, but then there\u2019s just furniture assembly where it could be a piece from anywhere. Those Taskers definitely cross. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Many of them are also handymen, so they will do minor home repairs, like if your doorknob is loose. They have great skills. Some of them want to just focus only on Ikea furniture, but I would say that\u2019s the minority. Many of them cross into multiple categories.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Because Ikea is a parent, do you reserve supply or is that just not a problem?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It\u2019s just not a problem in all the countries that we serve. I alluded to this earlier, but Ikea is much bigger in Europe, so a larger portion of our Taskers know how to assemble Ikea furniture in Europe versus the US because we get a lot more Ikea jobs in Europe. The Ikea business is just much stronger over there. So no, we don\u2019t keep them separate. We let them choose whatever category they want. We do not have any challenges with finding supply though, even in Europe.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

You mentioned that Ikea has its own pressures on you and its own goals for Taskrabbit. What are those goals?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

The goals are always about growth. How do we continue to grow faster and how do we continue to evolve where we\u2019re solving the right problems for the overall customer and the Ikea customer? We just recently acquired a delivery company here in the US<\/a> that does delivery of big and bulky things so that we can help Ikea deliver furniture to your home. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It wants to make sure that we are able to expand to other countries. We\u2019re only in eight countries, while Ikea is in dozens of countries, so there\u2019s still a lot of opportunity for growth that way. So, there are definitely pressures, but they\u2019re similar to what any other parent or investor would have.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

And then there\u2019s Taskrabbit itself. How many people is Taskrabbit?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Right now, we\u2019re nearly 500 folks.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So, we are structured like many other companies. Today, we\u2019re very functionally focused with a matrix overlay. We have [general managers] looking over the US market and GMs looking over the European market and each country. There\u2019s always a bit of tension\u2026 or I would say maybe not a bit. I would like there to be a bit, there\u2019s probably a lot of tension between some of the needs that are unique per market or per country versus having fully functional ways of thinking about the problems. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

As an example, there are different competitive pressures in different markets, and there are different ways that customers go onto platforms and book their tasks. There are specific needs that customers in France have that are not applicable to the market in the US. How do we make that tradeoff? France is a much smaller overall portion of our business than the US, but you have to continue growing across the world. So, there\u2019s definitely healthy tension across there.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Put that into practice. What Taskrabbit makes most of all is a software product. You say that customers in France have needs that customers in the US don\u2019t have. What are those needs and how do they get expressed in the product?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

For example, there is some local tax law in France that allows customers who do work on their house to get some tax benefit, which is a great thing. This isn\u2019t something we have in the US, and so we want to make sure that customers have access to that. But to do that, you have to build out a different flow and allow them to be able to submit whatever tax documents that say that this is the work they\u2019ve done. There\u2019s dozens of these examples across markets. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Marketing campaigns also have to be different because people are different in every market, and they resonate with different types of themes and creative. How do we go broad but also have local capabilities? That ends up causing tension across the world, and that\u2019s what makes it fun. Certainly we don\u2019t have it figured out yet.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

My joke on <\/strong>Decoder<\/em><\/strong> is if you tell me the structure of your company, I can tell you 80 percent of the problems. If you tell me you\u2019re functional with a hybrid overlay, I can definitely tell you 80 percent of the problems.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Here\u2019s the thing: I\u2019ve gone through that a lot, but there is no perfect structure. If there was one, then we would all be doing that, and we wouldn\u2019t have to have this conversation. If you have a functional structure, it creates certain sets of problems. You can sort of fix them by going to a GM or a business unit structure. Then, unsurprisingly, you create other sets of problems. So, to me, it is not so much about the structure. It\u2019s much more about the skills and capabilities that people have, the incentives, and how they are uniquely positioned to work across boundaries, functions, or geographies. That\u2019s much harder to do. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It really comes back to culture. What are our values and how do we get people to really think and row in the same direction, whatever the strategy may be? Those are the bigger problems, and I don\u2019t think that changing the structure gets you closer to an answer. I think these types of adaptive problems are more difficult to solve and are actually more challenging. I don\u2019t think changing structure is the answer.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Maybe one of the hottest quiet debates on the show over the past few months is whether or not structure is a proxy for culture. You seem to be very much in the line that it\u2019s not. We\u2019ve had some opposite answers, but it feels like the split to me is whether you have multiple kinds of businesses you\u2019re running or you have one core product. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Once you end up in the multiple lines of business, the structure starts to reflect very different kinds of tensions and tradeoffs. Do you think that Taskrabbit has just one core business, or do you have multiple lines of business that you\u2019re trying to operate?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Historically, it\u2019s been one core business, but it\u2019s definitely separate from the delivery piece. There are many different things that we need to think about. We need to think about A to B, which we didn\u2019t have to think about before. We need to think about how to locate all sorts of components that are different from our core business. Still, it\u2019s really important to us. We think it\u2019s a great opportunity that is very connected to the moving business. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We are thinking a lot about what that means. Do we have a separate moving business business unit and what does that look like? Again, at the end of the day, it\u2019s not so much about structure. It\u2019s much more about the culture, how we can feel a sense of shared responsibility across the company, understanding what our priorities are, and what our vision and strategy are. Is it all aligned? Are we all able to row in the same direction? Is it very clear? Have we set the right expectations? These, again, are things that I think are more difficult to answer.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

The other big question to ask everybody on <\/strong>Decoder<\/em><\/strong> is about decisions. How do you make decisions? What\u2019s your framework?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I know there are many different answers here. I think there are different ways to describe them \u2014 one-way doors are decisions that I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve heard of \u2014 but the things that are really hard to reverse. So, closing down the office during COVID, reopening an office, or acquiring a company. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

These are bigger decisions, but I really trust my team and then think a lot about how they are empowering their teams to make their own decisions. I spend a lot of my time with customers. I think it\u2019s really important, whether it\u2019s having Taskers at my house or spending a lot of time interviewing Taskers or clients. But day to day, I\u2019m not as close to the problem as the people who I want to have the authority or the agency to solve those problems. They are hopefully spending much more time with the customer than even I am and understanding that specific problem much better than my team and I do. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

For me, it\u2019s really important to empower the team to make decisions. You have to test and try. The thing that we keep focusing on is making decisions quickly because the speed is what gets you behind. You can constantly be looking for more data and more certainty, and most of that doesn\u2019t exist. You have to start using your gut \u2014 your instinct or however you define that \u2014 to look at your past experience. You have some pattern recognition. You kind of understand how things may go, you weigh them, and you make a call. Doing that quicker is the most important thing.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

You just described being close to the customer. It\u2019s interesting. Your history at Uber is as the head of courier operations, right?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

You were on the supply side working with the courier.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Same with Airbnb. I definitely have a soft spot for the supply side of the business. Frankly, this is why I am doing the gig economy. When I was younger, my family and I emigrated from Poland. In the \u201880s, my parents were trying to find jobs with more hours. It was all hourly work, and it was hard to make ends meet. I often wish that these types of platforms existed then because no matter what, you can hustle and make more money. I definitely can relate to the supply side of the business a lot more.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

How do you make sure that the Taskers are happy? If everyone is doing this kind of work because they\u2019re not making enough money, there\u2019s sort of an inherent unhappiness there. How do you make sure that they are happy and enthusiastic about doing this instead of having to do it because the economy is in turmoil?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I don\u2019t know if the premise that Taskers are unhappy is right.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I think the premise that supply is increasing because the economy is in turmoil is kind of bearing itself out.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Correct. But I\u2019ll tell you, I have Taskers showing up at my house every month or week, and these are people who are really striving to make an incremental income or their main income. They love having the opportunity to use their skills to do something or to help someone else while making a pretty good wage, generally speaking. Like I\u2019ve said, we\u2019ve done a lot of things. We try to provide a lot of additional benefits for them. We try to help them and make sure that they can call us. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We have a whole team that is focused just on helping Taskers make money. This team will help you think about how you set prices, think about the categories you\u2019re in, how you can make sure that your write-up is correct, and so on. We\u2019re providing a lot of AI tools for Taskers to do that as well, but having that human interaction really helps. So, if you\u2019re here on our platform and you want to make money, there\u2019s an opportunity to make money. We want to be the people who help them do that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I\u2019m very curious about what you have Taskers at your house to do every couple of weeks. How many TVs are you hanging up Ania?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

[Laughs] No, it\u2019s not TVs. Don\u2019t tell my husband this because he still pretends that he can do these things, but he really doesn\u2019t. He doesn\u2019t notice that it\u2019s broken and he doesn\u2019t notice that it\u2019s now fixed. The house just runs. This is okay. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I had someone come in here the other day and mount a bunch of pictures in my son\u2019s room. I had someone come in to assemble furniture, like these bookcases behind me. I had someone come to help with my lawn. There\u2019s an infinite number of ways to get someone to help you in your home.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

What have you learned about your own platform that you wanted to improve by using it as much as you do?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So much. Make it simpler. Always make it simpler. Make it easier. I may not care to choose who the Tasker is. I just want to make sure that it\u2019s going to be a person who can do the job really well, and I want to do it as affordably as I can. So sometimes, it would be appreciated to have a bit more help in choosing. So, we\u2019re working on that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

You\u2019ve mentioned AI several times. I\u2019ve been asking basically everyone what happens when you have agents and more capable assistants built into your phones. I keep calling this the \u201cDoorDash problem,\u201d but you could call it the \u201cTaskrabbit problem\u201d or the \u201cUber problem.\u201d The idea that I could just tell Siri, \u201cI need to get a TV hung up,\u201d and then Siri goes off, clicks around the apps for me, and brings a Tasker to my house is very powerful. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There are a lot of companies attempting to build their way towards that goal. <\/strong>Google just announced a bunch of stuff<\/strong><\/a>, <\/strong>Microsoft just announced a bunch of stuff<\/strong><\/a>. That would disintermediate you, right? At the end of the day, you would just become a commoditized service provider to an assistant that might be collecting all the user interaction and own the customer relationship. Have you looked forward to that problem? Do you know how you want to address it?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I absolutely look forward to the problem. I look at it a little bit differently. If those agents exist, you have to go to where the customer is. We have people that come to our sites every day, but if people want to go to Ikea and book a Tasker via Ikea, we\u2019re not going to say no. If they want to go to Target and do that, we\u2019re not going to say no. If they want to go to Siri and do that, we\u2019re not going to say no. It\u2019s very easy to fall into thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t own the customer\u201d and \u201cI don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen with the customer.\u201d <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

But the customer will know that this is a Tasker, or we can make sure that they know that this is a Tasker. They can understand that they\u2019re working with another party, and they can come back directly or they don\u2019t have to. Then, there will be some economic way to figure out a system where it works for both parties. Siri, in this case, wants to be able to provide these types of services, and they can\u2019t really do it without Taskrabbit because only Taskrabbit actually has a network of thousands of Taskers. We cultivated that network. We know who they are and we understand their skills. They\u2019ve all been background checked.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Siri, Apple, or whoever is not going to do that. They\u2019re just not going to be able to do that. We will always have the strength and supply, and we will continue to go where the customer is to make sure as many of them have access to our platform as possible.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Isn\u2019t that the story of the internet though? Isn\u2019t it the companies and the platforms that have the strength and demand that get to set the terms?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I think it\u2019s a bit different when you look at a gig economy marketplace. At the end of the day, it takes a lot of work to bring together a set of Taskers or hosts or Uber drivers. It\u2019s really hard to acquire these folks and to make sure that they provide the quality that you want, and I don\u2019t see other companies being able to do that. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I also think it\u2019s too early. There are so many ways to test this and how to make it work. The example that you provided, we\u2019re still not quite there. There are many situations where it sounds great, but there are many that are still hindered from actually being a seamless experience. There\u2019s payments, logging in, accounts, and all sorts of ways that all of this can and will be resolved. But that gives us a chance to test a lot of different models and understand what works best for the Tasker, for the client, and in this case, for the two parties involved.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I\u2019m with you that it hasn\u2019t been proven to work, but I also go to the events and watch Amazon executives demonstrate the next version of Alexa and it books an appointment on Thumbtack when the dishwasher is broken. I can see how you want Taskrabbit in that mix, but then you are next to Thumbtack and the agent might just pick the lowest price, especially if you\u2019re charging the customer. You might just pick the service you were told about. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Look, we\u2019re very different from Thumbtack because Thumbtack is a lead gen product that is very hard to close, whereas we provide the experience all the way through. In the demo that you described, the client still has to go and work with whoever the end provider is. In this case, it\u2019s someone to fix your dishwasher. This isn\u2019t something that we have to do. Our product would look very different because we are able to shepherd the entire experience through.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

You close the loop. You actually send the task to the Tasker. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We close the loop, but again, we\u2019re still quite far from where that could go. I think the possibilities are endless, and we have to go where the customer is. If everyone all of a sudden goes and talks to the phone and that\u2019s how they order things or talk to Siri, I don\u2019t know how we would not be there.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Do you think it\u2019s different because you are not a lead gen model? I think about Thumbtack, for example. At some point, it\u2019s just there to deliver demand to a bunch of HVAC technicians or whoever was in that demonstration. Maybe Siri delivers that demand, and Thumbtack gets totally disintermediated. You\u2019re saying that\u2019s not your model and you\u2019re not worried about it, and you\u2019re charging the customer anyway. So would you just charge a higher rate for an agent to solve the problem?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There are so many different economic structures that can work here. We\u2019re in the very early stages. We may all think and guesstimate that this is the right structure, and then at year end we can decide, \u201cWow, this doesn\u2019t work for us, the third party, or the client. We\u2019re not getting enough people to actually do this.\u201d There\u2019s a lot of trial and error here, and it\u2019s too early to be saying, \u201cThis is the right model and this is the right structure.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

What are the most promising early flashes you\u2019ve seen?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I think the concept of having an agent do things for you is very interesting. If you take it a lot further, eventually in theory, we won\u2019t even have laptops, our Kindles, or whatever. We might just have agents constantly doing things for us on other types of devices. I think it\u2019s super exciting to be a part of that journey, but I think none of it has been proven and we\u2019re still actually pretty far away. Although technology is changing so quickly. It\u2019s quite remarkable to watch. It\u2019s quite remarkable to be alive during this time.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I go to all the demos and I have the same reaction as you, which is, \u201cDoes this actually work?\u201d They\u2019re very convincing demos.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

They are. I was just at a conference where someone was adamantly telling me that it\u2019ll only be three years before a robot can hang up a TV.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I don\u2019t believe that for a second.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I don\u2019t believe that. I just don\u2019t. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I have hung up a lot of TVs.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

This person was very adamant. Anytime that I\u2019m hearing about any work that is being done in a physical space, it\u2019s still really far away. They\u2019re working on having robots try to empty the dishwasher, and that\u2019s a complex task. It\u2019s really complex when you really think about it. There\u2019s a lot that still has to happen.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

One of the things that I\u2019m thinking about a lot is where does automation come and where does it go? Taskrabbit doesn\u2019t seem easily automatable from the jump, as you\u2019re describing it. A lot of these tasks are really, really hard for robotics to begin to try to solve, like hanging a TV or emptying the dishwasher. Many rounds of innovation have to happen to make that viable. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

But for other similarly situated competitors or peers you have like Uber, you can see how automation will change their business. The cars will drive themselves. That\u2019s going to change the business in radical ways, and we\u2019ll see how that goes. Do you see any automation that might change how Taskrabbit works in the near future?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

From a software platform perspective? One hundred percent. But in the context of what happens in someone\u2019s home? I really don\u2019t see a robot mowing the lawn just yet. But it will happen.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We just reviewed a <\/strong>bunch of robotic lawnmowers<\/strong><\/a> that you can buy and they don\u2019t work very well.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Right. They don\u2019t work very well. The internet didn\u2019t work very well whenever it started. The cellphones we had didn\u2019t work very well. So, it will evolve, but I think we\u2019re still quite far away.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

On the software side, what do you see that\u2019s going to change?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

For Taskrabbit, how we optimize the match between the client and Tasker is going to change. We can get so much smarter. I think how clients will come to our platform will change. Just the basics of how SEO and SEM work. Those terms will barely apply [in the future], and that will happen much sooner than a robot hanging up your TV. I think that pace of that change is much more accelerated.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Do you think that\u2019s where the growth is going to come from?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

When you talk to one of the car companies, they think all their growth is coming from the cars driving themselves. They can see the massive margins that come from getting rid of the drivers. But you don\u2019t have that opportunity. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Not yet. I understand their point. It\u2019s pretty remarkable to take a Waymo in San Francisco. I was at Walmart many years ago, and Walmart\u2019s offices are right across the street from YouTube. After YouTube became part of Google, there were a lot of self-driving cars \u2014 they were not called Waymos then \u2014 driving around, and they looked so foreign. Obviously, they had [test] drivers in them. And now look at it. So, this will happen. I understand the excitement. I just think we\u2019re further away from that in home services.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Have you had any conversations with the big AI companies about being a provider to their would-be agent platforms?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We are continually exploring our options.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

That\u2019s the only non-answer you\u2019ve given so far and I appreciate it. Does Ikea have a plan to build some great agent? Ikea has had many software platforms of its own over the years.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I\u2019m not sure, so I don\u2019t want to put words in their mouth. I know that AI is a critical investment and that it\u2019s looking at it in all parts of the business, but I wouldn\u2019t know exactly where it sees the most innovation.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

When I <\/strong>talked to Dara Khosrowshahi from Uber<\/strong><\/a> about what I keep calling the \u201cDoorDash problem,\u201d he said, \u201cLook, at first we\u2019re going to build it and we\u2019ll see if it works. If it\u2019s cool and if it works, we\u2019re going to charge high rates to make our business work, or maybe we\u2019ll come to some other arrangement.\u201d That was basically his point of view.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I think that\u2019s a great answer.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

So, you\u2019re tracking there? Let\u2019s just see if this is cool?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Absolutely. Let\u2019s make sure that we\u2019re involved. I think it is the right answer. We were part of the demo with Google last week. We\u2019re definitely doing more than dipping our toes into it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There\u2019s a lot of ways to build those integrations. I went to Google I\/O and I watched what it called <\/strong>Project Mariner<\/strong><\/a>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

That\u2019s right. We\u2019re part of that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It\u2019s running Chrome on a data center and AI is literally clicking around the website.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

That\u2019s right, and you can see it. I would say that\u2019s still somewhat rudimentary. I think you can do better. But again, it\u2019s just a first step. It\u2019s okay.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

That to me seems like a Rube Goldberg machine. APIs exist. We know how to make computers and databases talk to each other. This is fully ridiculous. Then, there are new age ways of doing it, like <\/strong>Anthropic\u2019s Model Context Protocol<\/strong><\/a>, where the agents have a more structured way of communicating. It\u2019s kind of just APIs, but they\u2019re cooler APIs. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Which of those ways do you think is going to be the future for you? Are you just trying them all?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I think whatever is easiest for the customer is going to be the future.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Who is the customer here? <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

At the end of the day, it\u2019s the people who are paying for these services. In our instance, it\u2019s the clients who need things fixed around the home. I think whatever is easiest for them is eventually what\u2019s going to work. I know Project Mariner kind of seems odd. You\u2019re just watching this mouse move around.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

It is. But at the end of the day, it\u2019s just the first step. I think Google is going to continue to evolve there. I don\u2019t want to say which way is the right way because eventually, all of these platforms will build products that will make it much more seamless for the customer to get things done. We just want to make sure we\u2019re involved.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Ania, this is great. What\u2019s next for Taskrabbit? What should people be looking for?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

We have some very fun things coming up. Ikea is a partner and has been a very successful partner. We believe we can have other very successful partners. We just rolled out a suite of products that will allow us to speak to those partners via an API much faster to ensure that their customers can come and use Taskrabbit services. So, we\u2019re really excited about that opportunity. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

The other thing that\u2019s really big is the continued evolution of how we match a client and a Tasker. The way you may see that as a client or a Tasker on our apps is just a more seamless way to know that you\u2019re getting the right person to do that TV mounting task on a brick wall.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

I\u2019m absolutely going to sign up for Taskrabbit to mount some TVs in my neighborhood. It feels like the thing I\u2019m doing this afternoon. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

If you love doing it, you should absolutely be doing it. You live in a neighborhood where I think there\u2019s a lot of people mounting TVs.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

There\u2019s going to be a lot of crooked TVs here in Westchester. Thank you so much for coming on <\/strong>Decoder<\/em><\/strong>, you\u2019re going to have to come back soon.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Thanks so much. I really enjoyed our conversation. <\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Questions or comments about this episode? Hit us up at decoder@theverge.com. We really do read every email!<\/sub><\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n
\n
\n

Decoder with Nilay Patel<\/h2>\n

A podcast from The Verge<\/em> about big ideas and other problems.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

SUBSCRIBE NOW!<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

<\/a><\/span><\/div>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Today, I\u2019m talking with Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith. Taskrabbit is one of the original gig worker platforms that\u2019s really focused on work you might need done in your home; it\u2019s been around for nearly 20 years, and you might be surprised to know that the core product has not changed all that much. Taskers can […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":283731,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[11768],"tags":[113298,12841,907,11527,22454,2481,9432,15371,6247,72196,1358,113297,5107,418],"dealstore":[],"offerexpiration":[],"class_list":["post-283730","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-apple-2","tag-ania","tag-automation","tag-business","tag-ceo","tag-decoder","tag-future","tag-ikea","tag-labor","tag-podcasts","tag-smart-home","tag-smith","tag-taskrabbit","tag-tech","tag-work"],"yoast_head":"\nTaskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work - Som2ny Network<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work - Som2ny Network\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Today, I\u2019m talking with Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith. Taskrabbit is one of the original gig worker platforms that\u2019s really focused on work you might need done in your home; it\u2019s been around for nearly 20 years, and you might be surprised to know that the core product has not changed all that much. Taskers can […]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Som2ny Network\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2025-06-09T14:05:33+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1199\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"623\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"53 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"admin\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/person\/b85e3c3dc0e1daea076524dc8810c371\"},\"headline\":\"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work\",\"datePublished\":\"2025-06-09T14:05:33+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730\"},\"wordCount\":10542,\"commentCount\":0,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png\",\"keywords\":[\"Ania\",\"Automation\",\"Business\",\"CEO\",\"decoder\",\"Future\",\"IKEA\",\"Labor\",\"Podcasts\",\"Smart Home\",\"SMITH\",\"Taskrabbit\",\"TECH\",\"Work\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Apple\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730\",\"name\":\"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work - Som2ny Network\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png\",\"datePublished\":\"2025-06-09T14:05:33+00:00\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png\",\"width\":1199,\"height\":623},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?bp_activities=1\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/\",\"name\":\"Som2ny Network\",\"description\":\"Daily Deals\",\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#organization\"},\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Organization\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#organization\",\"name\":\"Som2ny Network\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/\",\"logo\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/07\/4a0953c4-logo-300x86-1.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/07\/4a0953c4-logo-300x86-1.png\",\"width\":300,\"height\":86,\"caption\":\"Som2ny Network\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\"}},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/person\/b85e3c3dc0e1daea076524dc8810c371\",\"name\":\"admin\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/729ae85bf62b9917e93538db2f2688ca?s=96&r=g&default=https%3A%2F%2Ffivemor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fplugins%2Fbuddypress-first-letter-avatar%2Fimages%2Fdefault%2F96%2Flatin_a.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/729ae85bf62b9917e93538db2f2688ca?s=96&r=g&default=https%3A%2F%2Ffivemor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fplugins%2Fbuddypress-first-letter-avatar%2Fimages%2Fdefault%2F96%2Flatin_a.png\",\"caption\":\"admin\"},\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?author=1\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work - Som2ny Network","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work - Som2ny Network","og_description":"Today, I\u2019m talking with Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith. Taskrabbit is one of the original gig worker platforms that\u2019s really focused on work you might need done in your home; it\u2019s been around for nearly 20 years, and you might be surprised to know that the core product has not changed all that much. Taskers can […]","og_url":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730","og_site_name":"Som2ny Network","article_published_time":"2025-06-09T14:05:33+00:00","og_image":[{"width":1199,"height":623,"url":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png","type":"image\/png"}],"author":"admin","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"admin","Est. reading time":"53 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730"},"author":{"name":"admin","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/person\/b85e3c3dc0e1daea076524dc8810c371"},"headline":"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work","datePublished":"2025-06-09T14:05:33+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730"},"wordCount":10542,"commentCount":0,"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#organization"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png","keywords":["Ania","Automation","Business","CEO","decoder","Future","IKEA","Labor","Podcasts","Smart Home","SMITH","Taskrabbit","TECH","Work"],"articleSection":["Apple"],"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730","url":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730","name":"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work - Som2ny Network","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png","datePublished":"2025-06-09T14:05:33+00:00","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/06\/DCD-Ania-Smith-TaskRabbit.png","width":1199,"height":623},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283730#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?bp_activities=1"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith on AI automation and the future of work"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/","name":"Som2ny Network","description":"Daily Deals","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#organization","name":"Som2ny Network","url":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/07\/4a0953c4-logo-300x86-1.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/07\/4a0953c4-logo-300x86-1.png","width":300,"height":86,"caption":"Som2ny Network"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"}},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/person\/b85e3c3dc0e1daea076524dc8810c371","name":"admin","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/729ae85bf62b9917e93538db2f2688ca?s=96&r=g&default=https%3A%2F%2Ffivemor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fplugins%2Fbuddypress-first-letter-avatar%2Fimages%2Fdefault%2F96%2Flatin_a.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/729ae85bf62b9917e93538db2f2688ca?s=96&r=g&default=https%3A%2F%2Ffivemor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fplugins%2Fbuddypress-first-letter-avatar%2Fimages%2Fdefault%2F96%2Flatin_a.png","caption":"admin"},"sameAs":["https:\/\/fivemor.com"],"url":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?author=1"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/283730","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=283730"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/283730\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/283731"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=283730"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=283730"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=283730"},{"taxonomy":"dealstore","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fdealstore&post=283730"},{"taxonomy":"offerexpiration","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fofferexpiration&post=283730"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}