{"id":283194,"date":"2025-06-09T08:06:44","date_gmt":"2025-06-09T08:06:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/peraltafinancing.com\/uncategorized\/william-lane-craig-debates-alex-rosenberg-does-god-exist-video-audio-and-summary\/"},"modified":"2025-06-09T08:06:44","modified_gmt":"2025-06-09T08:06:44","slug":"william-lane-craig-debates-alex-rosenberg-does-god-exist-video-audio-and-summary","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=283194","title":{"rendered":"William Lane Craig debates Alex Rosenberg: Does God Exist? Video, audio and summary"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div>\n<p>Here is the video of the debate:<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Is Faith in God Reasonable? FULL DEBATE with William Lane Craig and Alex Rosenberg\" width=\"840\" height=\"473\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/bhfkhq-CM84?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/span><\/p>\n<p>Here is\u00a0my summary of the Craig-Rosenberg debate, which occurred on February 1st, 2013 at Purdue University.<\/p>\n<p><strong>The debaters<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Below is the summary.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Craig\u2019s opening speech:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The topic: What are the arguments that make belief in God reasonable or unreasonable?<br \/>First speech: arguments for reasonableness of belief in God<br \/>Second speech: respond to arguments against reasonableness of belief in God<\/p>\n<p>Eight arguments:<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>Contingency argument: God \u2013 a transcendent, personal being \u2013 is the explanation of why a contingent universe exists.<\/li>\n<li>Cosmological argument: God is the cause of the beginning of the universe, which is attested by physics and cosmology.<\/li>\n<li>Applicability of mathematics to nature: God is the best explanation for the applicability of mathematics to nature.<\/li>\n<li>Fine-tuning argument: God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe to permit life.<\/li>\n<li>Intentionality of conscious states: God is the best explanation of the intentionality of our mental states.<\/li>\n<li>The moral argument: God is the best explanation for the existence of objective moral values and duties.<\/li>\n<li>The resurrection of Jesus: God is the best explanation for the core of historical facts accepted by most ancient historians across the ideological spectrum.<\/li>\n<li>Religious experience: God is the best explanation of our immediate experience and knowledge of his existence.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p><strong>Dr. Rosenberg\u2019s opening speech<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>First argument: The fallacy of ad hominem<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>I don\u2019t know whether to laugh or to cry<\/li>\n<li>Dr. Craig has said all of that before in other debates<\/li>\n<li>You didn\u2019t need to come out on this cold night<\/li>\n<li>Craig\u2019s arguments have all been refuted<\/li>\n<li>Dr. Craig just doesn\u2019t listen<\/li>\n<li>Dr. Craig is not interested in getting at the truth<\/li>\n<li>Dr. Craig is just interested in scoring debate points<\/li>\n<li>The adversarial system is the wrong approach to decide truth<\/li>\n<li>Dr. Craig is very confident about his take of physics<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Second argument: The fallacy of arguing from authority<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>95% of members of the NAS are atheists<\/li>\n<li>Therefore Dr. Craig cannot use science<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Third argument: Effects don\u2019t require causes<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>I am going to pretend that Craig said that \u201cevery effect requires a cause\u201d<\/li>\n<li>Quantum mechanics shows that some effects occur without causes<\/li>\n<li>A particle of uranium (which is not nothing, it is something) decays without a cause<\/li>\n<li>This uncaused effect is the same as the universe coming into being out of nothing uncaused<\/li>\n<li>Therefore the principle of sufficient reason is false<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Fourth argument: Silicon-based life and the multiverse<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>If these constants had been different, maybe we would have other kinds of intelligent life, like silicon-based life<\/li>\n<li>Carbon-based life is not the only kind of life, maybe you can have other kinds of life, none of which have been observed<\/li>\n<li>There could be different kinds of life in other areas of the universe that we can\u2019t see<\/li>\n<li>There are things we can\u2019t see that disprove the current physics that we can see<\/li>\n<li>Quantum foam is evidence that a multiverse exists<\/li>\n<li>The multiverse would solve the problem of fine-tuning<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Fifth argument: The Euthyphro dilemma<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>The moral argument is refuted by Euthyphro dilemma<\/li>\n<li>Dr. Craig is such a moron that he has never heard of the Euthyphro dilemma ever before<\/li>\n<li>This is found in the first and simplest of Plato\u2019s dialogs<\/li>\n<li>Why is Dr. Craig so stupid that he has not read this simple dialog ever before?<\/li>\n<li>Evolution explains why humans evolve arbitrary customs and conventions that vary by time and place<\/li>\n<li>Alternative moral theories: utilitarianism, social contract, etc. that don\u2019t require God<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Sixth argument: Mormonism undermines Dr. Craig\u2019s three minimal facts about Jesus<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Why is Dr. Craig so stupid and ignorant to persist in pushing such an ignorant, stupid argument?<\/li>\n<li>Mormonism is a silly religion that is not historically well founded<\/li>\n<li>Therefore, Jesus was not buried<\/li>\n<li>Islam is a silly religion that is not historically grounded<\/li>\n<li>Therefore, the tomb was not found empty<\/li>\n<li>Scientology is a silly religion that is not historically grounded<\/li>\n<li>Therefore, the eyewitnesses didn\u2019t have post-mortem appearances<\/li>\n<li>Eyewitness testimony is unreliable in some cases<\/li>\n<li>Therefore, eyewitness testimony was unreliable in this case<\/li>\n<li>Apparitions of Mary are bizarre<\/li>\n<li>Therefore, the majority of historians are wrong to think that the disciples saw post-mortem appearances<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Seventh argument: Deductive problem of evil<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Evil and suffering are logically incompatible with an all good, all powerful God<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Eight argument: God is not just to allow evil and suffering<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>God cannot make the evils of this life right in the afterlife<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>Dr. Craig\u2019s first rebuttal<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Dr. Rosenberg sketched the deductive argument from evil.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Rosenberg presupposes naturalism. Naturalism is a false theory of knowledge:<\/p>\n<p>1. It\u2019s too restrictive: There are truths that cannot be proved by natural science.<br \/>2. It\u2019s self-refuting: no scientific proof for naturalism exists.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s why epistemological naturalism is considered false by most philosophers of science.<\/p>\n<p>But more importantly than that: Epistemological naturalism\u00a0does not imply metaphysical naturalism. (E.g. \u2013 W. Quine)<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Rosenberg has to present arguments in favor of (metaphysical) naturalism, not just assume that (metaphysical) naturalism is true.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Craig presented eight arguments against metaphysical naturalism taken from Rosenberg\u2019s own book:<\/p>\n<p>1. The argument from the intentionality (aboutness) of mental states implies non-physical minds (dualism), which is incompatible with naturalism<br \/>2. The existence of meaning in language is incompatible with naturalism, Rosenberg even says that all the sentences in his own book are meaningless<br \/>3. The existence of truth is incompatible with naturalism<br \/>4. The argument from moral praise and blame is incompatible with naturalism<br \/>5. Libertarian freedom (free will) is incompatible with naturalism<br \/>6. Purpose is incompatible with naturalism<br \/>7. The enduring concept of self is incompatible with naturalism<br \/>8. The experience of first-person subjectivity (\u201cI\u201d) is incompatible with naturalism<\/p>\n<p>Metaphysical naturalism is false: it is irrational and it contradicts our experience of ourselves.<\/p>\n<p>And epistemological naturalism is compatible with theism.<\/p>\n<p>Rebutting Dr. Rosenberg\u2019s responses:<\/p>\n<p>1. Contingency: no response<\/p>\n<p>2. Cosmological: he mis-states the first premise to say every effect\u2026 when it is whatever begins to exist\u2026, the origin of the universe was not from a vacuum, virtual particles come from a vacuum not nothing, there are interpretations of QM that are compatible with determinism. Rosenberg has to believe that the entire universe popped into being from non-being.<\/p>\n<p>3. Mathematics: no response<\/p>\n<p>4. Fine-tuning: the multiverse is refuted by empirical observations of the universe. Without fine-tuning, it\u2019s not that we still have silicon to make life out of. It\u2019s that we lose basic minimal things like chemical diversity, matter, stars, planets, etc. No life of any kind, not just no carbon-based life.<\/p>\n<p>5. Intentionality: no response.<\/p>\n<p>6. Moral argument: the answer to the dilemma is that you split the dilemma: God is the standard of good, and the commands flow from his unchanging moral nature. The commands are not arbitrary, and the standard is not external to God. Dr. Rosenberg is a nihilist and he cannot ground good and evil on his nihilistic view.<\/p>\n<p>7. Resurrection: The Gospels are early eyewitness testimony. Mormonism and Islam have nothing to do with the minimal set of historical facts about Jesus agreed to by the majority of ancient historians across the ideological spectrum, general statements against eyewitnesses do not refute the specific eyewitness testimony in this case.<\/p>\n<p>8. Religious experience: No response.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Rosenberg\u2019s first rebuttal<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I wrote a book and you should buy it, because it got me invited to this debate. Let me repeat the title a few times for you. Please buy it.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Craig is right, there are multiple interpretations of QM, not just the one I presented, including deterministic ones.<\/p>\n<p>All the disturbing implications of naturalism that Dr. Craig stated follow from metaphysical naturalism, and metaphysical naturalism is true. (Note: he equates science with metaphysical naturalism)<\/p>\n<p>Science proves that metaphysical naturalism is true, but I won\u2019t say what specific scientific tests prove my philosophical assumption of metaphysical naturalism.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll pretend that the Big Bang (science) doesn\u2019t disprove naturalism, like Dr. Craig said. Again. (covers ears) La la la, there is no Big Bang.<\/p>\n<p>We didn\u2019t come here to debate epistemological naturalism and metaphysical naturalism.<\/p>\n<p>Let me explain the problem of intentionality since I\u2019m so smart and no one knows what it means.<\/p>\n<p>There are many answers to this problem of intentionality.<\/p>\n<p>My answer is that most scientists are naturalists, therefore naturalism is true, regardless of the argument from intentionality of mental states.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s how I would respond to one of the eight problems with naturalism that Dr. Craig raised. I won\u2019t answer the other seven problems.<\/p>\n<p>It is an argument from ignorance to argue that the applicability of mathematics to the universe requires a designer, because there are non-Euclidean geometries. Craig\u2019s argument, which he gets from people like respected physicists like <a href=\"http:\/\/onlinelibrary.wiley.com\/doi\/10.1002\/cpa.3160130102\/abstract\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Eugene Wigner<\/a>, is bizarre. It is bizarre, therefore I refute Eugene Wigner and all the other scholars who make that argument. It is bizarre! Bizarre!<\/p>\n<p>Deductive problem of evil: there is no response to this argument, certainly not Alvin Plantinga\u2019s free will defense. The deductive argument from evil has not been entirely abandoned at all! It\u2019s not like arch-atheist J.L. Mackie himself admits that the deductive problem of evil doesn\u2019t lead to a logical inconsistency between evil and God.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Craig has to tell me why God allows evil or God doesn\u2019t exist.<\/p>\n<p>It is offensive that Dr. Craig cannot tell me why God allows every evil and suffering that occurs.<\/p>\n<p>He literally said this: \u201cI will become a Christian if Dr. Craig can tell me why God allowed EVERY EVIL THAT OCCURRED IN THE LAST 3.5 BILLION YEARS\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Craig\u2019s second rebuttal<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are not in a position to know why God allows specific instances of evil and suffering.<\/p>\n<p>God cannot force people to freely do anything \u2013 freedom is not compatible with determinism. Freedom is a good, but freedom opens up the possibility of moral evil. You cannot have the good of free will without allowing people to choose to do morally evil things.<\/p>\n<p>God can permit evil and suffering in order to bring more people into a relationship with him.<\/p>\n<p>The atheist has to show that God could allow less evil and achieve more knowledge of God in order to say there is too much evil.<\/p>\n<p>The purpose of life is not happiness, but knowledge of God.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Craig quotes agnostic Paul Draper (Purdue) and Peter Van Inwagen (Notre Dame) to state that the deductive problem of evil is dead because of free will and morally sufficient reasons for permitting evil.<\/p>\n<p>1. Contingency: no response.<\/p>\n<p>2. Cosmological: QM does not apply, because the universe came from nothing, not a vacuum, and QM only works in a vacuum.<\/p>\n<p>3. Mathematics: He mentions alternatives like non-Euclidean geometry, but we have to explain the structure of THIS universe.<\/p>\n<p>4. Fine-tuning: ???<\/p>\n<p>5. Intentional states: intentional mental states proves that minds exist, which fits with theism better than it fits with atheism.<\/p>\n<p>6. Moral argument: You need God to ground morality, and Dr. Rosenberg believes in morality. He needs God to ground objective moral values and duties.<\/p>\n<p>7. Historical argument: He has to respond to the minimal facts supported by the consensus of ancient historians across the ideological spectrum.<\/p>\n<p>8. The problems of naturalism: He says that you can\u2019t have science without naturalism, but you can have science with EPISTEMOLOGICAL NATURALISM, and theists accept science and methodological naturalism. We don\u2019t accept METAPHYSCIAL NATURALISM because of the eight problems Craig presented, like intentionality, first-person, persistence of self, etc. You can believe in both science and theism, by embracing epistemological naturalism, while rejecting methaphysical naturalism.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Rosenberg\u2019s second rebuttal<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Dr. Craig hasn\u2019t answered many of my points, I won\u2019t say which ones though.<\/p>\n<p>Debates don\u2019t work as a way of deciding what\u2019s true, so we should overturn the entire criminal justice system.<\/p>\n<p>The principle of sufficient reason is false because it is disconfirmed by quantum mechanics. And quantum mechanics (vacuum and virtual particles that exist for a short time) is similar to the origin of the universe (nothing and entire universe and 14 billion years).<\/p>\n<p>We know that alpha particles come into being without cause all the time from a quantum vacuum for a tiny sub-second duration before going out of existence, so we can say that the entire physical universe came into being for 14 billion years from absolute nothing which is not a quantum vacuum.<\/p>\n<p>Peter Van Inwagen is the best metaphysician working today, and he says that my deductive argument from evil is not decisive, it\u2019s not a successful argument. (Why is he undermining his own problem of evil argument????!)<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Craig invoked Plantinga\u2019s free will defense to the deductive POE. Freedom allows us to do evil. God could have given us free will without evil and suffering. I won\u2019t show how, but I\u2019ll just assert it, because debates are such a bad forum for supplying evidence for my speculative assertions.<\/p>\n<p>If you answer the question 3 + 5 as being 8, then you don\u2019t have free will \u2013 you are biologically determined if you answer 8, because everyone answers 8, and that means everyone is biologically determined with no free will.<\/p>\n<p>Why can\u2019t God give us free will and then prevent us from making a free choice?<\/p>\n<p>No scholars date the gospels earlier than 60-70 AD, especially not atheists like James Crossley who dates Mark to 40 AD. Therefore Jesus\u2019 burial isn\u2019t historical, like the majority of scholars across the broad spectrum of scholarship agree it is.<\/p>\n<p>The original New Testament documents were written in Aramaic.<\/p>\n<p>All New Testament scholars are orthodox Christians, like atheist Robert Funk for example.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Craig\u2019s concluding speech<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>In order to sustain the deductive argument from evil, Dr. Rosenberg must show that God could create a world of free creatures with less evil.<\/p>\n<p>Principle of Sufficient Reason: not using the general principle of sufficient reason, but a more modest version of this states that contingent things should have an explanation for their existence. And we know that the universe is a contingent.<\/p>\n<p>The New Testament was not written in Aramaic, they were written in Greek. Dr. Rosenberg is wrong there too.<\/p>\n<p>(Dr. Craig spends the rest of his concluding speech giving his testimony and urging people to investigate the New testament).<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Rosenberg\u2019s concluding speech<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Some long-dead French guy named Laplace said that he has no need of that (God) hypothesis. He did not know about any of Dr. Craig\u2019s arguments made in this debate tonight when he said that, though.<\/p>\n<p>There is no need to explain how the universe began or how the universe is finely-tuned if you just assume metaphysical naturalism on faith.<\/p>\n<p>The Easter Bunny, therefore atheism.<\/p>\n<p>Most scientists are atheists, therefore atheism.<\/p>\n<p>You can do a lot of science without God, just don\u2019t look at the origin of the universe, the fine-tuning of the universe, or the other parts of science that Craig mentioned, as well as the origin of life, the Cambrian explosion, the habitability argument, and so on.<\/p>\n<p>You can be a Christian, but good Christians should not use arguments and evidence.<\/p>\n<p>Good Christians should be irrational and ignorant. Bad Christians look for arguments and evidence from science and history.<\/p>\n<p>Good Christians should embrace the absurd. Bad Christians want to search for truth and use logic and evidence.<\/p>\n<div id=\"jp-post-flair\" class=\"sharedaddy sd-like-enabled sd-sharing-enabled\">\n<div class=\"sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled\">\n<div class=\"robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-text sd-sharing\">\n<h3 class=\"sd-title\">Be effective and influential:<\/h3>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><h3 class=\"jp-relatedposts-headline\"><em>Related<\/em><\/h3>\n<\/p>\n<\/div><\/div>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Here is the video of the debate: Here is\u00a0my summary of the Craig-Rosenberg debate, which occurred on February 1st, 2013 at Purdue University. The debaters Below is the summary. Dr. Craig\u2019s opening speech: The topic: What are the arguments that make belief in God reasonable or unreasonable?First speech: arguments for reasonableness of belief in GodSecond [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":283195,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[112649,103229,112650,112651,12051,112652,11803,105797,112653,112654,110389,112655,112656,112657,100502,112658,112659,112660,112661,112662,112663,88,112664,11937,112665,112666,112667,109104,11960,112668,112669,112670],"tags":[5721,4450,17820,61399,25399,10275,7938,112671,4028,1236,5091],"dealstore":[],"offerexpiration":[],"class_list":["post-283194","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-alex-rosenberg","category-apologetics","category-argument","category-atheism","category-atheist","category-big-bang-theory","category-christian","category-christianity","category-contingency","category-cosmology","category-debate","category-dualism","category-evidence","category-fine-tuning","category-god","category-holocaust","category-intentionality","category-logic","category-mind-body-dualism","category-moral-argument","category-morality","category-news","category-non-belief","category-philosophy","category-philosophy-of-religion","category-physics","category-problem-of-evil","category-resurrection","category-science","category-theism","category-universe","category-william-lane-craig","tag-alex","tag-audio","tag-craig","tag-debates","tag-exist","tag-god","tag-lane","tag-rosenberg","tag-summary","tag-video","tag-william"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>William Lane Craig debates Alex Rosenberg: Does God Exist? 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