Kevin: <\/span>Let me back into that (it\u2019s a great question) by doing just a little bit of theology and philosophy, because I think this is necessary and will help us. We speak of emotion . . . I have a book on my shelf back here that argues that the word \u201cemotion\u201d in English discourse is probably as recent as maybe the nineteenth century.<\/p>\nFor a long time, philosophers and theologians had a more robust vocabulary to talk about this thing that now we just flatly call \u201can emotion.\u201d They talked about \u201csentiments\u201d or \u201csympathy\u201d or . . . I\u2019ll give you two classic words that go way back in the biblical tradition, the Greek tradition: the difference between \u201caffections\u201d and \u201cpassions.\u201d<\/p>\n
Now we use the word \u201cpassion\u201d as something good: \u201cI\u2019m very passionate about something.\u201d But that\u2019s not exactly what they meant. A passion in Western theology and philosophy is something that sweeps over you. Kind of think of the word, \u201cpassive\u201d or \u201cpassion\u201d like \u201csuffering.\u201d<\/p>\n
There\u2019s a line in the Westminster Confession of Faiththat says that God is \u201cwithout parts or passions,\u201d in my Presbyterian tradition. That trips up a lot of people. \u201cWait, I want God to be passionate! I don\u2019t want God to be static and lifeless!\u201d But that\u2019s a different use of the word.<\/p>\n
When it says God doesn\u2019t have passions, it means He doesn\u2019t have things happen to Him, like things happen to us. You can\u2019t punch Him in the stomach and His stomach hurts. You can\u2019t call Him a bad name and He starts to cry and He feels bad.<\/p>\n
He doesn\u2019t have passions like we do, things that sweep over us, that render us passive. On the other hand, theologians often talk about \u201caffections.\u201d They called affections to be a motion (that\u2019s where you get the word \u201cemotion\u201d) of the will, meaning there is something of our choosing and our inclination involved in these things called affections.<\/p>\n
Some of your listeners\u2014because you have very esteemed listeners\u2014maybe have heard of a famous book by Jonathan Edwards, the Puritan theologian, called Religious Affections. <\/em>There\u2019s a reason the book is not Religious Emotions, <\/em>though we hear the two as the same thing. They\u2019re actually quite different!<\/p>\nSo, coming to your point, because that little theological sidetrack, I think, is important. When we talk about emotions in the Christian life, we\u2019re often really thinking about passions. \u201cHow do I have these things?!\u201d And we feel powerless by them!\u00a0<\/p>\n
We feel like, \u201cI can\u2019t do it. I just make myself feel a certain way!\u201d Well, that\u2019s really \u201cpassions,\u201d and typically passions were seen as lower parts of your kind of animal appetites. Like, you just can\u2019t help but feel hungry when you haven\u2019t eaten.<\/p>\n
Where \u201caffections,\u201d is not divorced from the word we think of as emotions, but they involve our choosing, our volition, our willing. So it\u2019s very hard for us to kind of get this concept. But I think it\u2019s important when we talk about the affectional element of the Christian faith.<\/p>\n
I was joking the other day that I\u2019m a Dutchman, and Dutch people aren\u2019t always known for their high emotional register! (laughter) I tell my people, \u201cI do have feelings! I have one or two of them! I\u2019ve got a couple, I\u2019ve got a few feelings. I\u2019m cheap . . . and other things.\u201d But we all have a different emotional register.<\/p>\n
But I want to be clear about affections. We want, I want a Christianity that is filled\u2014because the Bible\u2019s filled with this affectional language. But we need to understand this affection comes through the truth of God\u2019s Word. Meaning, if you\u2019re a mom out there and you\u2019ve got diapers and you\u2019ve got laundry and you\u2019ve got all the stuff to do, you think, I\u2019m just feeling tired and exhausted, and how to survive my day, and I don\u2019t think I\u2019m a very good Christian.<\/em>\u201d That is a long stage of life!<\/p>\nIf you think of the high point of spirituality as, \u201cI\u2019m going to feel a certain thing about God today,\u201d then you\u2019re going to end up feeling pretty discouraged!<\/strong> But if you say, \u201cOkay, what does \u2018affection\u2019 mean? It means that as I receive God\u2019s Word in my life, I can make a choice to respond to the events in this day in a certain way.\u201d<\/p>\nI can respond by repeating God\u2019s promises to myself. I can respond, and choose to respond, even though I may be feeling one thing toward my child right now. I can yet incline my heart to an affection of gentleness, which may not be really welling up within me!<\/p>\n
So you have a passion that is sweeping over you: \u201cI am so frustrated with this kid right now; I must not be a good parent!\u201d Sometimes you need to understand that those passions, let\u2019s call them, or emotions come at you like you\u2019re standing at a beach and you see a big wave coming at you.<\/p>\n
We can all relate to this. You\u2019re getting frustrated with your husband, or you\u2019re so upset with your kids right now, or you’re anxious and you don\u2019t want to be anxious. The more you tell yourself not to be anxious, the more you get anxious!<\/p>\n
Well, sometimes you need to think of those emotions like a wave. You see it coming, and you can\u2019t just tell yourself, \u201cI\u2019m not going to feel anything.\u201d Just like if you\u2019re standing at the ocean and the wave\u2019s coming, you can\u2019t say, \u201cNope, I\u2019m going to turn the tide back!\u201d You can\u2019t do it.\u00a0<\/p>\n
But what you can do is steady yourself and lean in and dig in and be secure, so when this wave of anxiety crashes on your shore, on your person, you have some preparation. Now, you still feel something, and you maybe wish you didn\u2019t feel that.<\/strong><\/p>\nBut that kind of passion is different than the affections that I think God wants to work in us by His Word.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\nOur feelings don\u2019t have to be in the driver\u2019s seat.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dannah: <\/span>Yes, and He does work them in us by His Word. What you\u2019re saying is that our feelings don\u2019t have to be in the driver\u2019s seat.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n\u00a0<\/p>\n
Kevin: <\/span>Yes, they\u2019re not determinative.<\/p>\nDannah: <\/span>Yes! You can turn your will toward what is going to point you to God\u2019s Word, right?<\/p>\nKevin: <\/span>Yes, and Jesus says, \u201cSanctify them.\u201d You want to be holy? \u201cSanctify them by Your truth; Your Word is truth.\u201d So Jesus tells us how you are going to become more like Him. It\u2019s by His Word!<\/p>\nThat\u2019s why I think all of us are tempted to do shortcuts. Again, I\u2019m for feeling things. You can put on a type of music and light a candle, and you can feel something. That\u2019s alright; those might not be bad feelings. But that by itself is not sanctification!\u00a0<\/p>\n
Again, to use the analogy with a spouse, if you\u2019re first dating, you can have a shortcut to something that feels like love. You\u2019ve got all the hormones going, and you could do a special thing. That\u2019s good.\u00a0<\/p>\n
But you know, after twenty, thirty, forty years of being married together, some of those feelings aren\u2019t quite as intense as they were the first date you went on. But do you actually love that person a whole lot deeper, fiercer, weightier? But that comes with time, and it comes with knowledge.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dannah: <\/span>Yeah, so good! It does take time. Yesterday you talked about the different paces at which we spend time in God\u2019s Word. And just the last, maybe five years, I\u2019ve started to take just a verse and mull it over all day, think about it all day, put it on a Post-it note on my car windshield, go for a walk and have the letters of every word written with a Sharpie on my wrist so I can remember what it says.\u00a0<\/p>\nThe intimacy that I\u2019m experiencing with Jesus is so different from years, decades, of my quiet time and my Bible study time, just because I\u2019m devoting that time. I think that\u2019s what you\u2019re getting at, you\u2019re driving at. Intimacy with the Word, wonder in the Word, requires time.<\/strong><\/p>\nKevin: <\/span>Yes, there\u2019s absolutely no shortcut for it! Anything in life that\u2019s going to produce real excellence, maturity, growth, satisfaction is going to take time! <\/strong>Think of any really godly Christian you know in your life, he or she has spent a lot of time in the Word and has probably been through suffering. There are no shortcuts to it.<\/p>\nAnd what you\u2019ve said is exactly true. We usually think, Okay, Bible reading and prayer.<\/em> Well, there is a third category, and this was typical for the Puritans, for example. That third category, which overlaps with the other two, is meditation. Not meditation in a yoga class or something, but meditation on God\u2019s Word. \u201cHow does this apply?\u201d<\/p>\nI\u2019ve had seasons where I\u2019m more disciplined with Scripture memory and then other seasons where I tend to have great plans, and then I do two months, and then I start to fall apart\u2014like a lot of people.<\/p>\n
But here\u2019s why I tell myself and my congregation to do Scripture memory: it forces us to meditate.<\/strong> Maybe you say, \u201cYou know, I tried Scripture memory, and a month later I forgot that verse.\u201d That\u2019s okay. You probably remember more of it than you realize.<\/p>\nIt\u2019s not even that you can win Bible Quiz Bowl and then spit back all the verses. It\u2019s the discipline of slowing down when you try to memorize something. Like you were saying, you have it on a Post-it note, or you have it on your windshield.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I think how different and richer would my life be if instead of all of the lines we have to wait in\u2014the grocery store, the doctor\u2019s office\u2014what\u2019s the first thing we all do? We pull out our phone! What if I had a notecard in my pocket, and it was a verse that I was just meditating on for the week?<\/p>\n
Dannah: <\/span>I love that!<\/p>\nKevin: <\/span>That simple act could be huge! So, we\u2019re not very good at the meditation part. In my life, the only way I really know to do that is to try some Scripture memory. Because then I have to read over it, or I write it out, or I say it to myself ten times. That\u2019s the act of slowing down, chewing on it, that really brings it home!\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\nThen you have the experiences you\u2019ve had, and it is really rich! It\u2019s amazing, even if you memorize two or three verses. All of a sudden, you start seeing them everywhere! Like, \u201cOh, that verse works! I can share the gospel with that verse anytime. That\u2019s the right verse all the time!\u201d It\u2019s amazing how God uses them!<\/p>\n
Dannah: <\/span>It\u2019s like you start to see things when you look at it for a really long time<\/strong>\u2014when you look at a picture or a painting for a long time, or a sunset. You see things that you didn\u2019t notice before. That\u2019s what memorization and meditation does. It\u2019s like, \u201cOh, eureka! That\u2019s what that verse means! That\u2019s why that word is there!\u201d It\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\nYou\u2019re a great teacher! I just geeked out a little bit. I loved that little lesson in philosophy and theology, thank you!<\/p>\n
Kevin: <\/span>Well, good! I\u2019m glad somebody did.\u00a0<\/p>\nDannah: <\/span>You mentioned yesterday that it\u2019s important for us to listen to good teachers. You even said that it was a gift that when Jesus ascended into heaven, He said, \u201cI\u2019m leaving you some gifts, and here\u2019s one of them: teachers.\u201d<\/p>\nBut teachers can be a dime a dozen today with these phones in our pockets. You have access to teachers on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube. I\u2019m not sure all of them are good teachers. How can we be discerning about the ones who are going to help us love and wonder at the Word<\/strong> and the ones who are going to maybe make us less secure when we\u2019re holding our Bibles in our hands?<\/p>\nKevin: <\/span>That\u2019s absolutely essential, and it\u2019s really difficult. Our digital age has so many blessings and so many curses. A blessing is, \u201cWow! We could do something like this!\u201d People all over the world have access to amazing content from the Word!<\/p>\nBut the curse is, anybody who says anything, if they say it loud enough, or they put some other people down, or they have enough technological savvy, they can get a following. So it can be really difficult to discern.<\/p>\n
Obviously, we want to test everything. We want to be Bereans who want to test everything against the Word of God<\/strong>, so that\u2019s number one. And number two, the people you know as real flesh-and-blood human beings are the first people you should be following<\/strong>.<\/p>\nYou should be listening to your local church pastor, who is a thousand times more important than listening to a Kevin DeYoung sermon or Alistair Begg or Tim Keller, or whomever. So, the more you know in some personal nature . . .<\/p>\n
People can still fool us, but that\u2019s how you can have some . . . \u201cOkay, this is a real person, and I know him.\u201d Some of the women at the church may listen to this program; they may have certain women that they love to listen to. You have a sense of, \u201cWell, I know their lives, and I know what sort of person this is.\u201d So the more you can have a real in-flesh discernment, that helps!\u00a0<\/p>\n
And then, I also look at, \u201cDoes someone have a track record of being helpful, faithful, and fruitful?\u201d <\/strong>Now, teachers have to start somewhere. I started pastoring at age twenty-five, so hopefully there was something that was right even when I was twenty-five. But the more you can say, \u201cThis person has a history and has a record of faithfulness . . .\u201d<\/p>\nAnd then I want to look at: how does this person conduct themselves? <\/strong>Are they making a name for themselves mainly by triangulating after somebody else? Are they mainly building off of somebody else\u2019s platform by putting them down, by differentiating themselves? Or are they able to give positive content from the Word to others?<\/p>\nThen I look at, are they leading anything? Are they doing anything? Are they under authority? <\/strong>Are they under authority from a board of elders, from a presbytery, from a board of trustees\u2014whatever. I get really nervous when somebody\u2019s out there and I don\u2019t think anyone has any authority over them!<\/p>\nDannah: <\/span>These are really good points! I think about some of the people that I started following as a woman\u2014female teachers\u2014and I would think, Oooh, I like what she\u2019s saying!<\/em> But then I find that there isn\u2019t authority there that they are accountable to or that there\u2019s not fruit. They\u2019re criticizing a lot, but they\u2019re not bearing fruit. You\u2019re not hearing about discipleship and salvation\u2014fruit in their lives!<\/p>\nAt some point I had to say, \u201cYeah, a lot of those things are good, but I have the discernment in me\u2014a check in my spirit\u2014that maybe this isn\u2019t the person I should be following.\u201d So I delete their app or stop following it on Instagram. That\u2019s an important thing to listen to when you feel that, when you sense that, right?<\/p>\n
Kevin: <\/span>Yeah, and you really hit on it! Of course, our sense can be wrong, but if you\u2019ve been a Christian for a while, you should not ignore that sense. When you think, Something doesn\u2019t seem right here . . .<\/em><\/p>\nOne of the things you said is so important: \u201cWhat is the teacher passionate about?\u201d Not simply, \u201cWhat does their statement of faith say?\u201d There are all sorts of people where you can look on their website at their statement of faith, and you can say, \u201cWell, that sounds like a good statement of faith.\u201d But then when you step back, you think, I never hear them talk about these things,<\/em> or They did years ago, and now, I\u2019m not hearing them talk about the cross. I\u2019m not hearing about heaven and hell. I\u2019m not hearing about the Trinity. I\u2019m not hearing about conversion, regeneration, sanctification, holiness, the Bible; I\u2019m not hearing these things, even though they may say, \u201cOf course, I believe all of that.\u201d\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\nD.A. Carson, great Bible teacher, I once heard him say regarding his years of teaching students, \u201cI\u2019ve learned that my students don\u2019t learn what I teach them; they learn what I\u2019m passionate about!\u201d<\/p>\n
I think that\u2019s very true. That\u2019s just a good discernment, regarding the people that you\u2019re following: what are they really animated about? And what can be hard is that sometimes someone starts out animated about one thing, and they never quite reject those things. But you look back over the last five or ten years (and this happens to a lot of people) and all of a sudden the people they were once trying to build up are now the people they are really frustrated with and only want to put down.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So here\u2019s another last thing (I\u2019m talking too much . . .but I\u2019m a pastor!), \u201cHow does this person talk about the church?\u201d You find teachers who think it\u2019s trendy and spiritual to dis the Bride of Christ.\u201d They are not teachers you ought to listen to. You want teachers that make you, with all of her faults, lead you to love the Church, be more involved in the Church, more committed to the Church.<\/p>\n
Dannah: <\/span>Yes, amen! I think you\u2019re hitting the nail on the head about some of the areas where I\u2019ve been like, \u201cThere\u2019s just too much discontent, and too much verge of deconstructing here. We\u2019re on the edge of something that I\u2019m not comfortable with.\u201d Because the Church is <\/em>broken, but, boy, Jesus loves the Church! And we ought to, too.\u00a0<\/p>\nKevin: <\/span>Absolutely!<\/p>\nDannah: <\/span>So you\u2019re going to be with us\u2014I\u2019m so excited!\u2014at the True Woman conference in just a few weeks. What does it mean for you, as a pastor, that there are going to be thousands of women rekindling their wonder of God\u2019s Word? What does that mean for the Church?<\/p>\nKevin: <\/span>Thanks for letting a man come to the True Woman conference. I appreciate that, and it is a privilege! So, I\u2019m a pastor, and there are hard things about being a pastor. But my job is to study the Word. There are scads of pastors\u2019 conferences, and I get to meet with our pastors weekly, and we get to do things. Women have Bible studies and other good things, but to gather in a large group with a lot of women, away from some of the hurly-burly of life for a couple of days . . . I just know how much that means in the life of my dear wife, and how much that means to the women in a church like Christ Covenant, <\/em>where I serve.\u00a0<\/p>\nIn most churches the men are the leaders, rightfully so, but the women are often the spiritual heartbeat, pumping the blood and the energy and the oxygen throughout that! But they get depleted. So to go to something like this conference and have some fresh blood cells, get reinvigorated for your walk, to sing and to hear and to learn and to realize you\u2019re not doing this alone . . . and actually there\u2019s a whole lot more than you thought! . . . that can be really encouraging!<\/p>\n
Conferences never replace the Church (shame on anyone who thinks that!). And yet, for years and years, you can go to conferences that help you come back and be an even more fruitful, faithful member of your church, more encouraged. We need those things, and we need those rhythms.<\/p>\n
Just like in ancient Israel, they had rhythms where they had the pilgrimages, they had the feasts. You need that in the sameness of life\u2014to have those high points that you look forward to, and you come back, and it helps you live the rest of your life faithfully.<\/strong><\/p>\nDannah: <\/span>Yes, I love what you just said, about how you realize you\u2019re not alone. I invited a woman, a friend, to the True Woman conference a few years ago. We met for a few moments in the hustle and bustle of everything, because I was helping Nancy and coordinating things.<\/p>\nAnd I just said, \u201cHow\u2019s it going? Are you having a good time?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n
And she said, \u201cI feel like I\u2019ve found my people! Even in my church where I know I\u2019m with like-minded believers, it\u2019s so good to see the breadth of the Body of Christ and to know that the headlines in my news feed, they\u2019re an echo chamber compared to the power and the truth of the Body of Christ!\u201d<\/p>\n
So, it\u2019s good to come together and see that and sense that. We\u2019re so grateful that you\u2019re going to be joining us. I can\u2019t wait to hear your message!<\/p>\n
Kevin: <\/span>I\u2019m looking forward to being with you; it\u2019s an honor. And may the Lord use His Word, because that\u2019s what we all love, that\u2019s what we\u2019ve been talking about, and that\u2019s what we need!<\/p>\nDannah: <\/span>Amen!\u00a0<\/p>\nNancy: <\/span>We\u2019ve been listening to Dannah Gresh and Pastor Kevin DeYoung. Oh, I hope you\u2019re going to seriously consider joining us at theTrue Womanconference in Indianapolis this October.\u00a0<\/p>\nIt\u2019s going to be such a wonderful time to be encouraged by sisters in Christ and to be reminded that you are not alone in your love for God\u2019s Word. I\u2019ll be there, Pastor Kevin will be there, so will Dannah, Mary Kassian, Jackie Hill Perry, Kelly Needham, and so many other women we love here at Revive Our Hearts!<\/em><\/p>\nWe\u2019ll be together October 2nd through the 4th in Indianapolis, and our theme for this conference will be The Word: Behold the Wonder! <\/em>You can find more information and get your ticket by visiting TrueWoman25.com<\/a>. And even if you can\u2019t make it in person, we have some livestream options available for you to consider.<\/p>\nIf you\u2019ve been following along with Pastor Kevin DeYoung yesterday and today, and you\u2019re thinking, I\u2019d really like to become more familiar with God\u2019s wonderful Word<\/em>, then we have a resource for you!<\/p>\nIt\u2019s a small book called Fly through the Bible.<\/em> It\u2019s written by Pastor Colin Smith, a dear friend of this ministry. It gives a high-altitude overview of the whole Bible. This month we\u2019re offering this resource along with a beautifully designed art piece with a bit of poetry I\u2019ve written about the wonder of the Word!<\/p>\nWe\u2019re offering both the book and the art print to any listener who makes a donation of any amount. To make your gift and to request the book and the poem, visit us at ReviveOurHearts.com<\/a>, or give us a call at 1-800-569-5959.\u00a0<\/p>\nOur emphasis here in the month of June is: His Word Is Wonderful! Tomorrow we\u2019ll continue growing our sense of wonder when it comes to God\u2019s Word. If you tend to think of the Bible as sometimes being a boring or irrelevant book, I\u2019m hoping your perspective will change as you listen to our series, \u201cThe Book of Books.\u201d Be sure and be back tomorrow for Revive Our Hearts.<\/em><\/p>\nThis program is a listener-supported production of Revive Our Hearts <\/em>in Niles, Michigan, calling women to freedom, fullness and fruitfulness in Christ.<\/p>\n\n *Offers available only during the broadcast of the podcast season.<\/em><\/small><\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n