{"id":227299,"date":"2025-05-06T19:17:23","date_gmt":"2025-05-06T19:17:23","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/peraltafinancing.com\/business\/marketing\/building-the-worlds-first-global-small-agency\/"},"modified":"2025-05-06T19:17:23","modified_gmt":"2025-05-06T19:17:23","slug":"building-the-worlds-first-global-small-agency","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=227299","title":{"rendered":"Building The World\u2019s First Global Small Agency"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div data-bglz=\"1\" itemprop=\"text\">\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/alexandermyers\/\" class=\"external\" target=\"_blank\">Alex Myers<\/a> is the Founder and CEO of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/manifest.group\/\" class=\"external\" target=\"_blank\">Manifest Group<\/a>, a leading B Corp-certified brand communications agency with studios in London, Manchester, New York, Los Angeles, Stockholm, and Melbourne.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As an agency, Manifest is a driving force for better diversity, equality, and inclusion in the creative industries. It is powered by an all-female managing partnership and creative director team globally. Alex is a vocal advocate for fusing creative disciplines to deliver fully \u2018unified\u2019 campaigns across paid, earned, social, and owned media.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Starting the business in 2009 from his living room, with no clients, colleagues, or connections, the agency has grown to become one of the most highly awarded creative independent networks worldwide, receiving hundreds of industry accolades. <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here, he shares that experience and his insights and lessons.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>You can listen to the podcast here:<\/p>\n<p><iframe data-bglz=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/www.trinityp3.com\/podcasts\/building-the-worlds-first-global-small-agency\/about:blank\" width=\"100%\" height=\"166\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" data-rocket-lazyload=\"fitvidscompatible\" data-lazy-src=\"https:\/\/w.soundcloud.com\/player\/?url=https%3A\/\/api.soundcloud.com\/tracks\/2082844392%3Fsecret_token%3Ds-25Ao4ec2K6M&amp;color=%23ff5500&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;show_reposts=false&amp;show_teaser=true\"><\/iframe><noscript><iframe loading=\"lazy\" data-bglz=\"1\" src=\"https:\/\/w.soundcloud.com\/player\/?url=https%3A\/\/api.soundcloud.com\/tracks\/2082844392%3Fsecret_token%3Ds-25Ao4ec2K6M&amp;color=%23ff5500&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;show_reposts=false&amp;show_teaser=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"166\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe><\/noscript><\/p>\n<p>Follow Managing Marketing on\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/managing-marketing\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Soundcloud<\/a>,\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/managingmarketing.podbean.com\/\" rel=\"noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Podbean,<\/a>\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/tunein.com\/podcasts\/Business--Economics-Podcasts\/Managing-Marketing-p1275737\/\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">TuneIn<\/a>,\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/75mJ4Gt6MWzFWvmd3A64XW\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Stitcher,<\/a>\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/75mJ4Gt6MWzFWvmd3A64XW\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Spotify,<\/a>\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/au\/podcast\/managing-marketing\/id1018735190\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Apple Podcast<\/a>\u00a0and\u00a0<a class=\"external\" href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/5e7b205c-81c9-44e0-aa1d-d2ce504c6048%E2%80%8B\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Amazon Podcasts.<\/a><\/p>\n<h3\/>\n<h3>There\u2019s never a more innovative period in economic growth than when everything\u2019s shit.<\/h3>\n<h3\/>\n<h3>Transcription:<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Hi, I\u2019m Darren Woolley, Founder and CEO of TrinityP3 Marketing Management Consultancy, and welcome to Managing Marketing, a weekly podcast where we discuss the issues and opportunities facing marketing, media, and advertising with industry thought leaders and practitioners.<\/p>\n<p>If you enjoy the Managing Marketing Podcast, please like, review, or share this episode to spread the words and wisdom of our guests each week.<\/p>\n<p>While many will start their own agency with a vision of grandeur, my guest today, took a more humble approach. Starting the business in 2009 from his living room with no clients, colleagues, or connections, the agency\u2019s grown to become one of the most highly awarded creative independent networks worldwide.<\/p>\n<p>Receiving hundreds of industry accolades, including Campaign\u2019s Global Consultancy of the Year in 2024, and having held the title of PRWeek\u2019s International Agency of the Year for three out of the past four years, he was named Campaign CEO of the Year in 2022 and PRWeek\u2019s Global International Communications Professional of the Year in 2020.<\/p>\n<p>Now, considering the objective was to build the world\u2019s first global small agency, you can argue he has exceeded all expectations. Please welcome to the Managing Marketing Podcast, the Founder and CEO of Manifest Group, Alex Myers. Welcome, Alex.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Thank you. Happy to be here. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, look and let\u2019s first of all acknowledge the fact that you\u2019ve just got off a long flight, so I\u2019m waiting for the jet lag to kick in, but let\u2019s persevere and see how we go. If you do suddenly nod off, I\u2019ll won\u2019t take it as a personal affront to the conversation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I mean, I\u2019ll probably make as little sense as usual but this time have an excuse, so it\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a really great story about starting your business in your living room because that\u2019s how I started my business 25 years ago, is suddenly, you\u2019ve made this decision, you\u2019ve seen an opportunity and you\u2019re going to start a business, and then there\u2019s just a blank piece of paper and a whole lot of dreams. What was it like for you and where was that living room?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s a really good description, a blank sheet of paper and a whole lot of dreams, that sounds like the title of an autobiography. But yeah, it was in London, in North London, in a small area of London called Highgate if anyone knows London.<\/p>\n<p>But yeah, it was a small garden flat, and I think the business started the same way as any business starts, a heady mix of naivety in bravado where I was just like, \u201cLook, I could try and do this myself.\u201d I think there was not the confidence that it would work, quite the opposite actually, but I think the confidence that if when it inevitably doesn\u2019t work, I can find a job somewhere else.<\/p>\n<p>So, I thought if I don\u2019t give this a shot now, then when? And the truth is, it started because I couldn\u2019t find an agency doing what I felt agencies should do. So, that wasn\u2019t really a market opportunity, it wasn\u2019t a business plan, it certainly wasn\u2019t a business born off a spreadsheet, it was born off a blank sheet of paper and dreams.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And I only recently read an article, a point of view where they said the biggest loss for the big holding companies is the number of times one of their staff have come to them with an idea for innovating the business model, and they\u2019ve been told, \u201cThat\u2019s not what we do here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And the person\u2019s then gone off and started it based on this idea that they tried to hand to them, and it is true, isn\u2019t it? For a creative industry, one of the things that the advertising industry seems to really resist is actually innovation and change.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, definitely. I think that was absolutely one of the motivations for me to start Manifest, was I could see that agencies needed to be something different for changing kind of brand landscape, but also no agency was built around the work, it\u2019s a counterintuitive industry.<\/p>\n<p>Most of the big networks are built around a spreadsheet and how do we make maximum profit for shareholders, rather than how do we make work that generates maximum profit for shareholders? And most independents are set up for an exit, so they have a specialism that actually works against the benefit of the work.<\/p>\n<p>Okay, well, let\u2019s focus on a specific vertical market which means you just apply the same playbook to everything; or let\u2019s focus on a channel, which means if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you\u2019re a social media agency, then every problem can be fixed with social media.<\/p>\n<p>Or a geographic location or whether the London Agency, and when an inevitably a big U.S. network wants a London presence, then they\u2019ll buy us. None of that\u2019s built around, let\u2019s just have our dream job for the next 30 years, and that\u2019s really where Manifest comes from.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, that\u2019s really interesting. So, you\u2019ve basically built a business that gave you and therefore, other people like you the opportunity of having a place to be.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I mean, that\u2019s a really interesting way to put it. I would say that everyone at Manifest has in some way, struggled to fit in somewhere else. We\u2019re definitely a collection of misfits that have found a home, and I think there is that kind of kindred spirit, but also that diversity of spirit that comes from people who are just here for the work, and there\u2019s not that many of us anymore.<\/p>\n<p>I think a lot of people are here for different motivations and different career challenges. But I think people who enjoy or respect the idea of having to come up with ideas for a living and think that\u2019s the kind of job that when you were a kid, you never dreamed could exist.<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s that kind of heady optimism in everyone that joins Manifest, whether they\u2019re in the finance team or whether they\u2019re in the creative team, and I think that\u2019s wonderful about running an independent agency, but I think that\u2019s also something that happens organically too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Because it\u2019s that sense of never being satisfied with the status quo that actually drives innovation, isn\u2019t it? It\u2019s that constant questioning which is the very thing that you\u2019d be wanting to attract to your business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah. I think David Ogilvy called it divine discontent, and it\u2019s that idea that you can never be happy with the work that\u2019s gone. And I think it\u2019s certainly a founder mentality. If we win a pitch, I\u2019m always like, \u201cWhat\u2019s next?\u201d If we lose a pitch, I\u2019m always, \u201cWhat\u2019s next?\u201d There\u2019s just consistently what\u2019s next.<\/p>\n<p>In the Manifest branding, there\u2019s an underscore after Manifest, and that just means that we\u2019re still typing. And that excitement with what\u2019s coming next and what\u2019s on the horizon is the bit that gets me out of bed in the morning, really.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The other thing I found really interesting was the timing of it. Because 2009, for people with short memories, is like when the global recession that we had really started to bite, I think, in everything, not just in the advertising and media industries, but business generally.<\/p>\n<p>And so, I like this idea that it was created out of hardship. And while you haven\u2019t expressed that, it is in the context of London in 2009, as was New York and even Sydney, were places where there was quite a bit of economic pain.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, definitely. It was a shit show economically, but I think for a startup agency, if you can start in that kind of environment, then it sets you in good stead. But also, there are opportunities that exist in that kind of market for an independent that don\u2019t exist when everything\u2019s going swimmingly.<\/p>\n<p>Certainly, those early clients took a punt on a one-man agency when they might not have done, had their budgets not been cut, or had they not needed to deliver better ROI or had they not needed to be innovative themselves. And necessity\u2019s a mother of invention, I think there\u2019s never a more innovative period in economic growth than when everything\u2019s shit.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s when you start to see new agencies, it\u2019s when you start to see new ideas, new marketing, new brands, and that\u2019s kind of exciting. But yeah, it was a bit of a crucible, but I didn\u2019t know what I was doing anyway, so it\u2019s just a good example. Just another good example that I didn\u2019t know what I was doing. I would set it up in the middle of a global economic crisis.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And out of that, as you say, opportunities present themselves, particularly if you\u2019re not overburdened by the challenges, you\u2019re then looking for the opportunities.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s what a creative does. It\u2019s looking for real solutions to real problems. If we kind of look at what the consistent definition of creativity is, you\u2019re building things. So, if a real problem is that there\u2019s less money in people\u2019s pockets or budgets have been slashed, or there\u2019s a cost of living crisis, those are all things that creatives will fix, and that\u2019s the creative mindset I think, it\u2019s really interesting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So, in those early days, this idea of the world\u2019s first global small agency, was that something you had as a vision upfront, or did that evolve over time? Because when you\u2019re a single person, you\u2019re a very small agency.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah. And I think there\u2019s that interesting point where you use the proverbial \u201cwe\u201d when you\u2019re in pitches and things, and it\u2019s like there will be a we if we win this. But yeah, it was definitely in the original business plan, was to become the world\u2019s first global small agency. And what I meant by that wasn\u2019t necessarily about scale as much as it sounds. It was about trying to-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Attitude?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it was about attitude for sure, maintaining a small and agile mindset, but also, I knew that big agencies lose their culture, big teams lose their culture. When there\u2019s 300, 3,000 people in one office, you can\u2019t all know each other. So, I thought if we could get to a maximum of 50 people in each studio, I\u2019m then putting a glass ceiling on people\u2019s ambitions, but what if I don\u2019t put a ceiling on how many studios there are?<\/p>\n<p>Suddenly, we can actually connect one global culture, but every managing partner in every studio still knows the name of everyone in their team, still knows the name of everyone\u2019s partners, and still knows their commute into the office and the names of their dog, that\u2019s important to a culture.<\/p>\n<p>And I\u2019m dropping cliches left, right, and center, but culture eats strategy for breakfast. I think if there\u2019s one secret ingredient, it is that culture of a small agency we\u2019ve maintained as we\u2019ve grown, but that international outlook, that global citizenship, that\u2019s something that really is reflected in all of our work. And everyone feels like they\u2019re part of a small team, but a global unit and that\u2019s really interesting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s interesting you pick 50 because I think anthropologically-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll probably change it to 60, but I think it is anthropologically true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>No, no, no it\u2019s actually about 100.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>You can only have 50 connections.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s about 100. You can function as a connected human being inside a group of a hundred, but that includes extended connections. I like the idea that it\u2019s more intimate at 50, but also, at building additional offices. My question would be because culture is important, how do you replicate culture into new offices? Because culture is driven by people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It is, yeah and I think it\u2019s having a central ambition rather than having central character set. So, at Manifest, we\u2019ve always been passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion not because it\u2019s a checkbox, but because the quality of our creative output is directly correlated to the breadth of the input, and that\u2019s the same for culture.<\/p>\n<p>So, everyone is hired on a cultural ad. So, everyone\u2019s got their own role in that group of 50. Like you mentioned, from an anthropological standpoint, everyone naturally starts to fuse their own role and the leaders in the business are what carry the culture forward.<\/p>\n<p>So, identifying those people with leadership qualities, and that not being potentially something that a network agency would identify as leadership qualities because it\u2019s about cultural leadership, that\u2019s really important. The people are the ones that are going to deliver the culture and every studio has its own little microculture, of course it does.<\/p>\n<p>But they\u2019re all there for one central reason, to build brands that change the world. They\u2019re all there to see work as something we produce together, not a place we go to produce it, or the effort we put in to produce it, work is a body of work for us.<\/p>\n<p>And there\u2019s kind of two levels, I guess. Tere\u2019s a minimum, which is work I want to tell my mates about in the pub, that\u2019s your base level, and then there\u2019s work you want to tell your grandchildren you did when they say, \u201cWhat did you do?\u201d And not every-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>A legacy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, exactly. It\u2019s a collective legacy and that\u2019s where culture comes from, I think. If it\u2019s not born out in the work, you start to see the culture wane, and that\u2019s the challenge really. I would say that culture comes from what you say no to, and principles \u2013 and not principles that costs you money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So, have you found that you\u2019ve been inclined to develop those leaders, those cultural leaders, and then import them into a new office? Or do you recruit cultural leaders in that market when you sort \u2026 because you\u2019re in quite a few markets, aren\u2019t you? You\u2019re in from the top of mind-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, we have London and Manchester in the UK, we have Stockholm in Sweden, we have New York and LA in the States, and then we have Melbourne here in Australia.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I mean, that\u2019s quite diverse cultures as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I mean, it\u2019s funny what you learn from all those different cultures, but absolutely every single leader in those different studios has arrived in a different way, but all of them have had a connection with the broader culture at some point.<\/p>\n<p>So, our example is in Australia here, we have Isabel Thompson-Officer who\u2019s our managing partner, and she was working in our New York team, but is from Melbourne originally, and actually got stuck here during COVID, and expedited plans to move back.<\/p>\n<p>And she actually handed her notice in, and I was like, \u201cNo, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, we\u2019d always talked about setting up a Melbourne office.\u201d And I think from her point of view, I think to kind of summarize her point of view, she was like, \u201cI\u2019m not ready.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And my response was \u201cexactly\u201d because unless you learn as a founder and grow something from nothing, you don\u2019t have that commitment. Quite often people will say to me, \u201cOkay, what is it that that means when you\u2019re able to talk about that so passionately or you\u2019re able to deliver that message to the client without being nervous about it?\u201d And the secret ingredient is desperation.<\/p>\n<p>Anyone who\u2019s been a founder, I\u2019m sure you know, you don\u2019t have a choice. It\u2019s this other street, so you\u2019ve got to do it. And I think there is a beautiful honesty to that desperation that I think exists in all of our leaders in one way or another for one reason or another. And I love that we\u2019ve grown organically like a family does, but that commitment is not something I would ever take for granted either.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s something in the language there about the difference between leaders and managers, and there was that terrific book, <em>The E-Myth<\/em> by Gerber. He said, any business needs three types of people. It needs technicians that do the work, it needs managers to manage the business and then it needs entrepreneurs or leaders that actually drive the vision and drive the business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve actually got a different codification for that actually. So, we have a similar structure in how we think about teams, but the three personality types are leaders talent and warriors. And I think sometimes we\u2019re over-indexing one or the other, but talent are annoyingly mercurial and unfortunately, they\u2019re the ones who score the wonder goal, and I didn\u2019t put their shift in, but they\u2019re the ones who scored the goal in 90th minute.<\/p>\n<p>You have the leaders who are the ones who set the plan, set the agenda, but aren\u2019t necessarily ones who enjoy seeing a project through to the finish. And the warriors deliver the mission and they get shit done.<\/p>\n<p>And I think you need a blend of those different characteristics for sure, and I think it\u2019s interesting in a founder, you kind of find yourself needing to have all three at different points in time. Sometimes you\u2019re-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Or at least the appreciation of what it takes. They need to value all of those things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Definitely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Because otherwise, it becomes too one dimensional.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>A hundred percent.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But then that\u2019s one of the problems with scale. The traditional model of scale means that your groups get bigger and bigger and bigger, and so, you\u2019ll be inclined to err on managers rather than leadership.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ll have a lot more managers, and then the managers start to overwhelm any sort of entrepreneurial leadership, because their job as a manager is to maintain the status quo, to keep the ship sailing forward, to deliver the quarterly profit results so the shareholders are happy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s interesting as well, how you can help drive that as a leader yourself. So, we have a quadruple bottom line. So, our leaders in each studio aren\u2019t just based\/they\u2019re not just focused on performance . That is obviously there, the traditional financial metrics.<\/p>\n<p>But they\u2019re also set specific measurable KPIs around product, quality of the work, and is it doing what we set out to do \u2013 people, are people happy and being developed? How long are they in the business for? What\u2019s the EMPS? And also, purpose, are we living the brief?<\/p>\n<p>So, not just building brands that change the world, but being one ourselves. That includes communicating our ethnicity and gender pay gaps to the wider team. It includes establishing a scoring system for all of our work to ensure that there\u2019s a central change within each piece of work. We call it a virtue metric that sits under the value metrics and the vanity metrics. And beyond that, we have structures and systems that ensure people embed into the culture quicker.<\/p>\n<p>So, again, there was a behavioral study on why people stay in jobs that they hate, and it was because there\u2019s a financial incentive to stay in the job that you hate. So, we created a financial incentive to leave the job.<\/p>\n<p>So, in your first three months at Manifest in Aussie dollars, I think it\u2019s about $2,000, we\u2019ll pay you to leave at any point in your first three months. And if you don\u2019t leave, after the end of that three months, you have to choose someone who gets the $2,000 who made you feel most welcome. So, we call it \u201cthe fuck off grant.\u201d It didn\u2019t ever get a real name, it was like a working title and then it just stuck.<\/p>\n<p>But so far touch wood, no one\u2019s fucked off, but we do have a meritocracy around being nice. Something that no one has in any business that I\u2019m aware of. There\u2019s no incentive for being that person in the office who knows where the good coffee comes from or who\u2019s going to help you out with the password system on whatever.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So, I just want to stop there because I\u2019m ex-copywriter, I have a real fascination with words, and \u201cnice\u201d is one of those words that I often see used as almost a mediocre insult. Like if you present some work to a client and they go, \u201cThat\u2019s nice,\u201d they\u2019re sort of saying, \u201cYeah, it\u2019s okay.\u201d So, what about when it comes to people, what do you actually mean by nice?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s a really good question. I think one of the reasons why nice is in my vocabulary so much as well, is when I started the business, there\u2019s a lot of people who said that I couldn\u2019t do it, there\u2019s a lot of people who said don\u2019t do it, and when I told them how I was going to do it, there\u2019s lot of people who had never set with business themselves who were willing to tell you why it wasn\u2019t going to work.<\/p>\n<p>And one of the biggest things, but the most common piece of advice was, \u201cYou won\u2019t get anywhere being nice in business,\u201d and I was like, \u201cYou watch me.\u201d Like you can\u2019t lose your humanity. My mom would kill me if I wasn\u2019t nice.<\/p>\n<p>And I think niceness is one of those things that comes possibly from \u2026 I\u2019m from a working-class northern background in the UK, I\u2019m not from your traditional public school background, as we call it in the UK private school here, and being nice is how you get along. If you are not nice, you don\u2019t get along with anyone.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s funny how many people buy from nice people. Everyone knows the challenges they have with people who aren\u2019t nice. And I think, yes, you can codify it, you can decide to try and break it down, but really niceness is about authenticity as well. You can\u2019t pretend to be nice, and we\u2019ve got two rules at Manifest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, then you\u2019re just sort of sleazy and inauthentic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And it\u2019s see through, and I think we had a rule straight away in recruitment, \u201cno brilliant dickheads\u201d and that that still exists. We used to actually say it on the job ads: \u201cNo, dickheads,\u201d you can\u2019t really get away with that anymore. But-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But everyone knows what you mean.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I think from-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So, it\u2019s someone that has empathy for others, goes out of their way to make people feel welcome, really would treat others as they\u2019d like to be treated themselves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah. It\u2019s someone who feels they\u2019re part of an ecosystem, they\u2019re not just acting in a silo on their own, I think that\u2019s what niceness is for me. We have two rules at Manifest, work hard and be nice to people, everything else is up for challenge.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think our mothers probably went to the same school because my mother\u2019s favorite saying was, \u201cIt\u2019s nice to be important, but it\u2019s important to be nice.\u201d And in fact, I have that set in beautiful type by I think it was Colenso did it for me because it came up in a conversation on my wall in the office to remind me that that\u2019s ultimately, the thing that will get you in the world, get you forward in the world.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>This is a really interesting tangent, I hope. But we\u2019ve got on our walls in every studio, we have a neon sign that says, \u201cWelcome Home Sexy.\u201d And the reason it-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>No, I saw that on your website.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it also says it when you load up the website and it\u2019s on our handbook when you join, it\u2019s kind of taken on a life of its own. But <em>Welcome Home Sexy <\/em>came from the fact when we moved to a studio big enough to have a neon sign on the wall, myself and our Chief Design Officer, Martin Farrar-Smith, who\u2019s my best mate from school as well.<\/p>\n<p>We were talking about what you get the neon to say because we didn\u2019t want to have just Manifest, it would look like a cult, and then we also, it\u2019s like getting a tattoo, you don\u2019t want to get sick of it after a while.<\/p>\n<p>And I can\u2019t remember which one of us said it, but when you pull into Bradford Interchange, the northern city I\u2019m from, when you pull into the train station, there\u2019s some really badly dobbed graffiti on the bridge that says, \u201cWelcome home sexy.\u201d And one of us said, \u201cIt needs to be like that where everyone looks at it and smiles.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And so, we went, \u201cWhy don\u2019t we just do that?\u201d We didn\u2019t tell anyone that that\u2019s what it was going to say and the guys came in and while they\u2019re putting it on the wall, everyone\u2019s like, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d And it says, \u201cWelcome home sexy,\u201d and I had no idea it would take on a life of its own but that\u2019s almost the niceness, it\u2019s an attitudinal thing too.<\/p>\n<p>Everyone who walks in, client who thinks their brief is boring \u2013 it\u2019s not, it\u2019s sexy to us. A person who thinks that their job\u2019s not important, they look up. I think that\u2019s one of the things that frustrates me about marketers. When you ask them what they do for a living, they look at their shoes and shuffle.<\/p>\n<p>You should be able to look up straight and be proud of the work that you\u2019re doing, and I think this should feel like a home, not just work. Everyone should feel welcome wherever they come from, and everyone, yeah, should feel sexy. Not in a sexualized way, in the way you would call a car sexy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And look, I think what it says to me is the very thing I think the industry suffered from, is over the years there\u2019s been a loss of swagger. And I use that word not to mean arrogance, but that confidence that someone has when they walk into a room and don\u2019t feel obliged to explain why they\u2019re there, that just they\u2019re meant to be there. To me, that\u2019s what swagger is. Is the ability to just be and everyone accept that that\u2019s who you are.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And if you look into celebrities and artists that everyone loves, they\u2019re all challenging characters, but what they always have is that swagger. There\u2019s a great lyric from a band called Elbow, which talks about oasis, which is a huge \u201890s cultural phenomenon in the UK.<\/p>\n<p>But \u201cI never perfected that simian stroll\u201d was the line, and that\u2019s exactly what that swagger was in the \u201890s. It was that Liam Gallagher shake and that\u2019s what you get from seeing Welcome Home Sexy.<\/p>\n<p>And it became the backdrop to so many Instagram pictures of after work, pitch win parties. It was always, when it\u2019s in New York and it\u2019s in Stockholm and it\u2019s just from this badly dobbed graffiti in Bradford. Do you know what I mean?<\/p>\n<p>And that for me, feels like it keeps our feet on the ground and our head in the clouds, and that\u2019s where exactly where we should be. But it casts a shadow on everyone that makes them feel taller, and that\u2019s what culture does. And if we can do that everywhere, then-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Alex, I\u2019d love to track down that graffiti artist and find the story as to why that\u2019s what they put on that-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Honestly, I wrote an article on it, this is years ago when people had started asking me, \u201cWhy we\u2019ve got Welcome Home Sexy on the wall.\u201d I wrote an article about it and I don\u2019t know anything about it, I would love to see them. And I don\u2019t even want to ask them that question, I just want to give them a hug and a bigger brush because it\u2019s a bit of a mess.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The canvas, perhaps.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Absolutely. It\u2019s still there though. Said friend, Martin Farrar-Smith took a picture of it just recently when he went on the train back home, so-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Fantastic. All the other graffiti artists now understand how important it is not to-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah. Bank it in-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Not to tag it, don\u2019t tag it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s funny, it\u2019s not been touched. I must have been \u2026 show my age now, but it\u2019s at least 25-years-old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Standing the test of time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>More than 30-years-old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>You are a B Corp or Manifest Group is a B Corp, but you spoke about very early on understanding the need for diversity and inclusion to build culture, that was obviously the basis. And then you went through the process, which is not easy of being certified for B Corp. What was the thinking there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s interesting because it was easy. We didn\u2019t need to change anything aside from I think some of the company\u2019s house details that need changing for B Corp status, but we just passed the certification.<\/p>\n<p>We had to do a lot of filing of work but we didn\u2019t have to change anything we do, which it comes from making up an agency as you go along because doing the right thing is pretty easy when you don\u2019t know what the right thing to do is.<\/p>\n<p>So, I didn\u2019t have any boardroom experience, so I wasn\u2019t following any status quo that was unethical, I was just building a business as I thought it should be built, and so were my colleagues. So, yeah, the diversity side, the reason I\u2019ve always been passionate about it, and just to be frank, I\u2019m a white male in the creative industry and there\u2019s not a shortage of us.<\/p>\n<p>But certainly, from my point of view, there\u2019s a real challenge. I don\u2019t know the statistics in Australia, but in the UK for instance, I think it\u2019s similar in the U.S., 96% of the creative industries are white, and you\u2019re producing 66% of the content everyone consumes on a daily basis, you don\u2019t have to be racist to imbue that with your unconscious bias.<\/p>\n<p>So, there\u2019s not any industry, I think maybe except for the law and legal industries that have a bigger legacy of that inequality and lack of diversity. So, it\u2019s our responsibility to be able to address that, not just from an ethical standpoint, but from a creative one.<\/p>\n<p>You can\u2019t represent the cultures that you\u2019re selling to if you don\u2019t represent them in the office yourself. So, that\u2019s why we were passionate about it to enhance our creative output and run a business as we thought it should be run.<\/p>\n<p>And that goes for our sustainability policies and our company benefits and parental leave. It\u2019s all been invented or learned from the different studios we opened in. Sweden has much better parental policies than anywhere else in the world. There\u2019s also a gender pay gap, it\u2019s not a coincidence.<\/p>\n<p>So, we have equal parental leave. Oddly, in order to get women back into the boardroom, you have to get men back into the home. So, we offer equal parental leave, no one else does that but you could switch off the gender pay gap pretty quickly by doing that, Sweden proved it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Now, Australia released, we do annual gender pay gaps for companies over a certain size and the advertising industry, it was out in early March, just before international Women\u2019s Day. It\u2019s lined up with that. There\u2019s still around a 20% gap between men and women in media and advertising in Australia and it\u2019s not moving, it\u2019s not moving-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, people don\u2019t try and learn about it. I think this is the challenge, learn about the real under the hood issues as if it would be a creative brief. So, the challenge isn\u2019t \u2026 I mean, there is systemic sexism \u2013 of course, there is, but people don\u2019t inherently pay men more than women. I mean, it\u2019s not also about that, there is a median gender pay gap, I don\u2019t know how it\u2019s measured in Australia, but usually it\u2019s a median.<\/p>\n<p>So, in that sense, it\u2019s much more about representation at senior level in the business. But at a certain point in everyone\u2019s careers, it\u2019s much more equal. Where it gets unequal is the point of starting a family really. Because women are really good negotiators. The bit that I hate about the gender pay gap discussion is when people start saying, \u201cOh, we\u2019re going to run a negotiation course for female employees.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Women know better than men instinctively, I think how to negotiate, but they feel societally implored to negotiate for different things. So, they\u2019re negotiating for flexibility, they\u2019re negotiating for time, and at the same time, there\u2019s a societal pressure on men to become the sole breadwinner. Suddenly, they\u2019re asking for more hours, suddenly they\u2019re asking for less flexibility, but they\u2019re asking for a salary in return.<\/p>\n<p>Like I said, if you can address both sides of the room, then you can fix the problem. But if you\u2019re looking for someone to blame, you can\u2019t. And sometimes, I find these polarized discussions really challenging and creatives as an industry, we\u2019ve got a job to do to communicate what the real problem is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>As a founder, you have that opportunity, don\u2019t you? To be able to bring the value set to the business and actually create the environment from that. Does that mean you attract like people or just people that find it attractive?<\/p>\n<p>I mean, do you think that you\u2019re going to be attracting the same sort of people that perhaps see more of a corporate ladder approach in bigger agencies? Or is it more that they come with a value set that\u2019s about to your point, the work and the purpose and the-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I mean, I think partly an interview process for us is selling what you get at Manifest. It\u2019s we do things the hard way a lot of the time. Not the long way around necessarily, but there\u2019s a reason why you do things that are hard, and I think we don\u2019t make it easy to manage the P&amp;L when you have the benefit structures that we have.<\/p>\n<p>We did make it easier for \u2026 we made unlimited vacation a benefit about 12 years ago, and that made it much simpler. Actually, that was one of those policies that it\u2019s just much easier to manage. But the reason we do those things is what we hire for, are you interested in what we\u2019re interested in? I think is the thing people forget about in recruitment.<\/p>\n<p>Like I said, no brilliant dickheads, it doesn\u2019t matter how good you are at your job, and we\u2019ve built a system that we call the Elemental System, where it\u2019s where your skills and your talents combine as your element, and that\u2019s what you work in at Manifest.<\/p>\n<p>And you can have multiple elements, but not all at once because otherwise, you just then cast as a generalist and everything\u2019s on your shoulders, as we all know in an agency that\u2019s just built on hierarchy.<\/p>\n<p>But the Element System is really important because you might enjoy one thing, but it doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re good at it. I think John Hegarty said, \u201cWe all enjoy singing, but we\u2019re not all asked to play Glastonbury.\u201d And at the same time, you can be really good at something you really fucking hate doing.<\/p>\n<p>So, finding your element is really important and I think that\u2019s what we offer people at Manifest, is this opportunity to shine and not just focus on your challenges and what\u2019s holding you back and try and bring you up to speed.<\/p>\n<p>Instead, we just balance you out with someone else who\u2019s got the elements that you don\u2019t have, and allow you to shine brighter rather than bringing up the rue of what you don\u2019t enjoy or you\u2019re bad at. Instead, we just make what you\u2019re spiking on really spiky and focus on what you love doing.<\/p>\n<p>And sometimes, generalists are that, and sometimes people are \u2026 the term account manager really frustrates me. Like what kind of spectrum of people do you have at that level? Account managers can be relationships people, creative people, planners, all different psychographics, and I think we need to grow up as an industry and build it around the people instead of asking them to build themselves into a really-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>To title.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, to a job title.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, I always find it interesting when I visit agencies and they all want to do the walk through the office, which I think sort of weird because they all pretty much look the same, though no one has Welcome Home Sexy in a neon that I\u2019ve seen. And the way they talk, \u201cWell, that\u2019s the creative area\u201d and point to a group of desks, and, \u201cYeah over there \u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>This is where the magic happens.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, and that\u2019s account service, and I always worry account service, or they\u2019ll say account management.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Never the two shall meet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And account management, and it\u2019s like that everyone\u2019s automatically compartmentalized, which is very much that traditional structure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And again, culture and structure I think are really important. When Anna Colson, who\u2019s now Anna Anderson, she just got married who runs our Stockholm office, she came to visit the UK the first time when we\u2019d set it up, and everyone got out of their chairs and went and gave her a hug. They were so excited to see her.<\/p>\n<p>And we went into the boardroom to chat, and she goes, \u201cIt\u2019s so nice, you asked everyone to give me a hug.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo, I didn\u2019t. That\u2019s just what everyone does when they\u2019ve got a new colleague.\u201d And I hadn\u2019t realized that wasn\u2019t normal, I didn\u2019t realize that people don\u2019t do that, and that was wonderful for me, I think.<\/p>\n<p>But also that demonstrates that connection that you don\u2019t get if you hire in a different way, or that you\u2019re not providing a home for people, you\u2019re just providing a workplace. You\u2019re not providing a legacy, you\u2019re just providing some tasks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Alex, what about your personal evolution, I guess? Because from the day that you started the business and then grew your business, your agency in London, and then when you first expanded into another market and now you\u2019ve got quite a few of these offices \u2014 you must have changed as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, definitely. I think it\u2019s funny, everyone says, \u201cHow can you stay in a job for 15 years?\u201d And I\u2019ve had a different job every three months in that 15 years. I\u2019m constantly an intern. I mean, the unofficial strap line for Manifest should be making shit this up since 2009. Literally, that\u2019s why I find myself doing on a daily basis.<\/p>\n<p>So, I enjoy that, and I think the thing that I\u2019ve become comfortable in is my lack of confidence and that imposter syndrome becoming a motivator and not something that holds me back necessarily. I think something that weighs heavier is duty.<\/p>\n<p>So, you become more comfortable, I think, for instance, having challenging conversations or you become more comfortable that you\u2019ve got more variables than other people have as the business grows, and that they can have a different point of view and you can compassionate to that, but it used to be very easy for everyone to agree on stuff, and it becomes less so.<\/p>\n<p>But as long as everyone trusts you\u2019re making the decision with the same information they would want in your role, and with the same values that they would apply to it, it\u2019s fine if I would make a different call. Same as it\u2019s fine if my managing partners make a different call in their market to what I would do, because I know and trust they\u2019re making it for the same reasons I would.<\/p>\n<p>So, I think for me, my job\u2019s always a learning job and I think if anything, I\u2019m just a nerd. I just enjoy learning and I\u2019m very curious about things, and I\u2019ve made more mistakes than anyone else in the last 15 years that I\u2019m aware of and I\u2019m sure other people will try and take that title and probably rightly so.<\/p>\n<p>But honestly, I think as a leader, you\u2019re shaped by your mistakes and your failures, and creating a freedom to fail within the business is a natural result of that too. I think founder-led businesses hit different because of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, from a personal experience, people would say to me, \u201cOh, the thing about having your own business is that you can never turn off.\u201d And I go, well, I think of it like this; I\u2019ve got this project \u2026 I don\u2019t know if you grew up \u2014 Meccano used to be a building toy as a kid.<\/p>\n<p>And I go, \u201cMy business is like a huge Meccano set, and it exists in a room over there. And every morning I go in there and I tinker and build and try things. And then when I walk out of there, sure, I may not turn off, I may still be thinking, but I\u2019m thinking about what did I do today and what better can I do tomorrow?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Again, it\u2019s that polarizing debate again, as if work and life are somehow inherently mutually exclusive. Rather than talking about work-life balance, why don\u2019t people talk about work life blend? How can you bring your life into work and your work into life?<\/p>\n<p>I feel like my work enriches my life, sometimes it gets too much just like everyone. But certainly, people used to get fed up of me talking about trying to work with Ezra Collective. Anyone from Manifest is laughing right now because I\u2019m a big Ezra Collective fan.<\/p>\n<p>And I used to pitch them for every single campaign. I\u2019m like, \u201cWe should be working with Ezra Collective on this.\u201d But that was because I loved them and as a creative person, I can see their connection culturally to the work that we\u2019re doing. I expect everyone in the business to do the same.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s something that if anything, I would want people in Manifest to feel that their work isn\u2019t somehow detrimental to their life. It shouldn\u2019t feel like it\u2019s a payoff for one to the other. And yeah, you shouldn\u2019t be checking a Slack messages at midnight, but if you want to, you should also have the freedom to.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And not feel bad about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Because I think that\u2019s the worst part, is all the expectations that people put on themselves about what it should be. It can be whatever you want it to be.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, I think ultimately, for all of the insecurity around how we\u2019re going to survive and thrive in the next two weeks or six months, the thing that having your own business as a founder gives you the freedom to basically define it the way you want it to, taking into consideration all of the people that are depending on you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, absolutely, and I think that way of people depending on you is a challenge for any founder, and I think it\u2019s something that you can\u2019t ever describe. I think every leader in every studio feels the same thing as well. And I think that weight of responsibility is something that you maybe don\u2019t sign up for, but it\u2019s rewarding at the same time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, particularly if you build a culture where the group, the team actually respond to, \u201cHey, we\u2019re having a hard time, let\u2019s actually solve this collectively.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think it\u2019s definitely in any work culture, it\u2019s the hard times that really define whether it\u2019s working or not. One of the biggest challenges I think I find now is it\u2019s so easy to go, \u201cOkay, things aren\u2019t going well, it must be because we\u2019re doing what we do versus what everyone else does,\u201d and in reality, it\u2019s because we\u2019ve probably lost touch with what we do, and gone too close to what everyone else does.<\/p>\n<p>And it\u2019s harder and harder, I think, as a founder to pull the group away from that muscle memory of just let\u2019s just run like every other agency, they\u2019re all doing fine. And I think certainly there\u2019s periodic challenges in each market that are macroeconomic we can\u2019t do anything about, and I think the way we react to those has to be innately Manifest, otherwise, it\u2019s not going to work.<\/p>\n<p>And again, we\u2019ve made mistakes where we have gone, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s be like everyone else.\u201d Not consciously ever, but that\u2019s happened in pitches where we\u2019re desperate, too desperate to win, and you learn from that. It\u2019s a challenge, but that\u2019s the exciting part of running a business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So, for me, a book called <em>Maverick<\/em> by Ricardo Semler which I was given a copy of soon after I started my business, before I had anyone working with me. The lesson was, don\u2019t hire adults and treat them like children, hire adults and treat them like adults \u2014 was the single biggest thing that before I\u2019d started my own business, that I had never even contemplated what that meant.<\/p>\n<p>Is there something like that, that you\u2019ve learned that\u2019s come up for you over the years of managing your business and growing your business that has really impacted your approach to this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I mean, we\u2019ve covered a lot of it. I think hiring nice people. No one kind of asks themselves in a questionnaire, in an interview, like, \u201cIs this person quite nice or easy to get along with?\u201d I think that\u2019s really important.<\/p>\n<p>But I think the thing that I\u2019ve learned is that you can\u2019t shape people, you can\u2019t ask for people to revolve around your business, the business has to revolve around them, and that the rules aren\u2019t set in stone. You know that everything\u2019s going to change all the time and that\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n<p>I think one thing that I think is a challenge at Manifest, because we want to be an agency of the future, it\u2019s not going to stand still. And I think we\u2019re not right for the people who want to sit down in a cubicle and work their day through or sit at home at a desk and work their day through without speaking to many other people and without any pressure. It needs to feel like it\u2019s a collective burden to get this work right.<\/p>\n<p>Not necessarily a collective burden to pay the bills, that can feel oppressive, but understanding that cohesive culture comes from sharing responsibility, sharing accountability. I think sometimes we\u2019ve got it wrong too in what you just said, around hiring adults and treat them like adults.<\/p>\n<p>I think you\u2019ve also got to help them become adults because you can\u2019t always hire junior people that are made to be an MD. Do you know what I mean? And I think sometimes it feels like Bugsy Malone at Manifest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Alex, even worse, because we hire people that have been in agencies and the thing we have to do is actually teach them how to be noninstitutionalized; how to go from working within one of these big corporate structures to actually just working as a person with other people, and it\u2019s really interesting seeing that transition.<\/p>\n<p>So, it\u2019s not just junior people, sometimes people that have had a good career in a corporate structure need to rethink what that means, what work means.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I mean, when did nobody does that in our industry become a reason to not do something? Surely, the fresh snow is interesting to explore as a creative, and I think too often it\u2019s like, well, I\u2019ve just come from this other place, and this is how they do time sheets. I\u2019m like, \u201cSo \u2026?\u201d Exactly, like we do it differently.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I was talking to Isabel yesterday about our appraisal system that we built originally, I built that on back at Football Manager which is a video game. Because in football, your value is your potential and your performance combined.<\/p>\n<p>So, you might be performing poorly because the players around you are out of position because you are in position or then, a different level. And what you do is you try and find where that person can shine in the team, and if they can\u2019t, then you move them on, of course.<\/p>\n<p>But our appraisal systems and review systems that are systemic, generally say, \u201cWhat are you bad at and how can we make you better at it?\u201d Who cares? Who cares what people are bad at. Like I said, with the Elemental System, it\u2019s built around helping people to shine. So, if you are really terrible at something, we need to ask ourselves, \u201cCan you be good at it?\u201d And if you can, then we\u2019ll fix it.<\/p>\n<p>But no other appraisal system asked, \u201cHow good can this person be at this?\u201d Because if you score 5 out of 10 for something and your potential is 5 out 10, why are you working on it? That\u2019s just your ability in that space.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Strength Finders, I think it was called, why do we waste so much time focusing on our weaknesses when we should be playing to our strengths? And they tell a great story that our culture loves the Cinderella story, the from rags to riches story. And that\u2019s why we focus on weaknesses and trying to turn those into strengths. Whereas, if you put that same effort into just honing your strength, you\u2019ll be phenomenal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Definitely and I think sometimes the people who shine in network agencies, the people who ignore those systemic pressures and just do what they\u2019re good at, and then they\u2019re idolized in the end. I\u2019m sure Rory Sutherland was a maverick in the Ogilvy network until people realized that people buy shit from Rory because he\u2019s really clever but the way he works is very different.<\/p>\n<p>And every single person, maverick aside, who\u2019s kind of idolized globally in creative circles is a person who\u2019s not done things by the rules, who\u2019s not made themselves a generalist. So, why do we insist on doing that to our junior members of the team instead of allowing them a path to shine in their own way?<\/p>\n<p>And Isabel\u2019s a great example in Melbourne. She didn\u2019t think that she was ready to be a leader, and she probably wasn\u2019t, but the support network was there, and now she\u2019s a shining star in the group and it comes from that trust, that the potential\u2019s there.<\/p>\n<p>And seeing that potential, rather than defining people by their existing level of knowledge and performance, it\u2019s our job to elevate people as leaders, it\u2019s not our job to tell them where they\u2019re shit. Anyone can do that.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s like you said, the difference between managers and leaders. Managers have staff, leaders have followers, and you\u2019ve got to be able to stand behind your team, not in front of them. And that can only come from seeing what\u2019s great inside people.<\/p>\n<p>And I think that\u2019s a secret power if anything, that a founder has sometimes is if you build a great successful team, it\u2019s not because everyone else would\u2019ve done the same thing. It\u2019s because you\u2019ve spotted things in people that other people haven\u2019t and you believed in them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Alex, this has been a terrific conversation. You\u2019ve held up really well, I\u2019m not detecting any signs of jet lag kicking in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s the caffeine, the intravenous caffeine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But thank you for your time and for sharing so generously your experience and your insights of building the world\u2019s smallest global agent. No-<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>World\u2019s first global small agency.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Global small agency. I\u2019ve got to get that right. Thank you and have a great time in Australia.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Alex:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Thank you very much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Darren:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Oh, look, a question before you go, and that is I\u2019m just wondering, do you think anyone could actually replicate this or should they try and find their own path forward?<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Alex Myers is the Founder and CEO of Manifest Group, a leading B Corp-certified brand communications agency with studios in London, Manchester, New York, Los Angeles, Stockholm, and Melbourne. As an agency, Manifest is a driving force for better diversity, equality, and inclusion in the creative industries. It is powered by an all-female managing partnership [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":227300,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[98],"tags":[5353,2539,5714,709,3555],"dealstore":[],"offerexpiration":[],"class_list":["post-227299","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-marketing","tag-agency","tag-building","tag-global","tag-small","tag-worlds"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Building The World\u2019s First Global Small Agency - Som2ny Network<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=227299\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Building The World\u2019s First Global Small Agency - Som2ny Network\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Alex Myers is the Founder and CEO of Manifest Group, a leading B Corp-certified brand communications agency with studios in London, Manchester, New York, Los Angeles, Stockholm, and Melbourne. 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