{"id":211561,"date":"2025-04-28T22:13:31","date_gmt":"2025-04-28T22:13:31","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/peraltafinancing.com\/apple-2\/michael-tsai-blog-revisiting-zfs-for-mac\/"},"modified":"2025-04-28T22:13:31","modified_gmt":"2025-04-28T22:13:31","slug":"michael-tsai-blog-revisiting-zfs-for-mac","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=211561","title":{"rendered":"Michael Tsai &#8211; Blog &#8211; Revisiting ZFS for Mac"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/news.ycombinator.com\/item?id=43810566\">Hacker News<\/a> is highlighting <a href=\"https:\/\/ahl.dtrace.org\/2016\/06\/15\/apple_and_zfs\">Adam Leventhal\u2019s 2016 post<\/a> (<a href=\"https:\/\/news.ycombinator.com\/item?id=11909606\">2016 comments<\/a>) about Apple\u2019s Leopard-era support for ZFS:<\/p>\n<blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/ahl.dtrace.org\/2016\/06\/15\/apple_and_zfs\">\n<p>A few weeks before WWDC 2007 nerds like me started to lose their minds: Apple really <strong>was<\/strong> going to port ZFS to Mac OS X.<\/p>\n<p>[\u2026]<\/p>\n<p>ZFS was to bring to Mac OS X data integrity, compression, checksums, redundancy, snapshots, etc, etc etc. But while energizing Mac\/ZFS fans, Sun CEO, Jonathan Schwartz, had clumsily disrupted the momentum that ZFS had been gathering in Apple\u2019s walled garden. Apple <strong>had<\/strong> been working on a port of ZFS to Mac OS X. They <strong>were<\/strong> planning on mentioning it at the upcoming WWDC. Jonathan, brought into the loop either out of courtesy or legal necessity, violated the cardinal rule of the Steve Jobs-era Apple. Only one person at Steve Job\u2019s company announces new products: Steve Jobs. <a href=\"http:\/\/www.theregister.co.uk\/2007\/06\/07\/apple_using_zfs_in_leopard\/\">\u201cIn fact, this week you\u2019ll see that Apple is announcing at their Worldwide Developer Conference that ZFS has become the file system in Mac OS 10,\u201d<\/a> mused Jonathan at a press event, apparently to bolster Sun\u2019s own credibility.<\/p>\n<p>Less than a week later, Apple spoke about ZFS only when it became clear that a port was indeed present in a developer version of Leopard albeit in a nascent form. <a href=\"http:\/\/www.informationweek.com\/apple-clarifies-status-of-zfs-file-system-in-mac-os\/d\/d-id\/1056096?\">Yes, ZFS would be there, sort of, but it would be read-only and no one should get their hopes up.<\/a><\/p>\n<p>[\u2026]<\/p>\n<p>By the time Snow Leopard shipped only a careful examination of the Apple web site would turn up the <a href=\"https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20090627034320\/http:\/\/www.apple.com\/xserve\/specs.html\">odd reference to ZFS left unscrubbed<\/a>. Whatever momentum ZFS had enjoyed within the Mac OS X product team was gone.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>Here\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2007\/10\/08\/zfs\/\">what I wrote in 2007<\/a>. Revisiting some of the issues:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<p>With Time Machine also being announced with Leopard, there was initial speculation that it was implemented using ZFS snapshots. Of course, that turned out not to be the case. Apple did eventually reimplement it <a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2022\/05\/18\/time-machine-evolution-and-apfs\/\">using APFS snapshots<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>ZFS was incompatible with HFS+ in that it didn\u2019t support full-length Unicode filenames. It now supports filenames up to 1023 bytes, which is more than APFS. So this is surely something Apple could have added if it wanted.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>ZFS was incompatible with Mac software in that it only supported bag-of-bytes filenames, not case-insensitivity or Unicode normalization. Apple was never fully consistent here, in that at the time it did support Mac OS X on UFS (which lacked both) and HFSX (which was case-sensitive). There was speculation that Apple could address this using higher level APIs. This is the path it took with the initial APFS release, which was <a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2017\/03\/24\/apfss-bag-of-bytes-filenames\/\">no better than ZFS<\/a> in this regard. By 2017, Apple had <a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/27\/apfs-native-normalization\/\">announced<\/a> a new version of APFS that did support Unicode normalization.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>I wrote that, unless Apple was already very far along in developing its own new file system, it would choose to get a head start by using a modified version of ZFS to address the above issues. This turned out to be totally wrong, as Apple instead scrubbed nearly all mentions of ZFS. APFS was not even available in developer beta until 2016, at which point it had been in development for only 2 years. It remains somewhat of a mystery what Apple was doing in the interim, aside from working on Core Storage.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>ZFS had inefficient storage for extended attributes. I didn\u2019t think this was a big deal at the time because Apple was barely using them. Since then, Apple has been using them a lot more, and APFS offers optimized storage for smaller xattrs.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>It wasn\u2019t until 2018 that Apple documented APFS, with the encryption documentation not coming until 2019.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2025\/01\/13\/what-happened-to-apfs-fast-directory-sizing\/\">Fast directory sizing<\/a> was announced with the initial version of APFS but still hasn\u2019t shipped in a form that works with Finder.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>There are still very few tools available for working with APFS. This might have been better with ZFS.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>I still wish that Apple had supported data integrity features like ZFS and think it\u2019s bizarre that they suggested this was not needed due to their superior hardware. With APFS, I have continued to see file corruption, drives that mount but don\u2019t work properly, and drives that suddenly don\u2019t mount at all. In theory, ZFS could have offered more robustness or at least earlier detection.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>Transparent compression would have been nice, too.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>APFS\u2019s awful <a href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/2019\/09\/19\/apfs-enumeration-performance-on-rotational-hard-drives\/\">performance on spinning hard drives<\/a> continues to be an issue, with even small folders sometimes taking more than a minute to display in Finder. ZFS also uses copy-on-write, but it was designed before flash, so I wonder whether it would have worked better in this regard (e.g. keeping the metadata contiguous).<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>It\u2019s possible that ZFS wouldn\u2019t have worked with iOS due to its memory requirements. I\u2019ve also read that this was solvable but don\u2019t really know the details. And, of course, iPhones have a lot more RAM now.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Previously:<\/p>\n<p class=\"tags\"><a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/apple-file-system-apfs\/\">Apple File System (APFS)<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/extended-attributes\/\">Extended Attributes<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/filesystem\/\">File System<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/history\/\">History<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/legal\/\">Legal<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/mac\/\">Mac<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/leopard\/\">Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/macos-15-sequoia\/\">macOS 15 Sequoia<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/opensource\/\">Open Source<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/stevejobs\/\">Steve Jobs<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/storage\/\">Storage<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/sun-microsystems\/\">Sun Microsystems<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/timemachine\/\">Time Machine<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/unicode\/\">Unicode<\/a> <a rel=\"tag\" href=\"https:\/\/mjtsai.com\/blog\/tag\/zfs\/\">ZFS<\/a><\/p>\n<h2><a id=\"respond\"><\/a><br \/>\nComments<br \/>\n <\/h2>\n<\/div>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Hacker News is highlighting Adam Leventhal\u2019s 2016 post (2016 comments) about Apple\u2019s Leopard-era support for ZFS: A few weeks before WWDC 2007 nerds like me started to lose their minds: Apple really was going to port ZFS to Mac OS X. [\u2026] ZFS was to bring to Mac OS X data integrity, compression, checksums, redundancy, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[11768],"tags":[3767,11553,1823,21076,17088,80245],"dealstore":[],"offerexpiration":[],"class_list":["post-211561","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-apple-2","tag-blog","tag-mac","tag-michael","tag-revisiting","tag-tsai","tag-zfs"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Michael Tsai - Blog - Revisiting ZFS for Mac - Som2ny Network<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/fivemor.com\/?p=211561\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Michael Tsai - Blog - Revisiting ZFS for Mac - Som2ny Network\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Hacker News is highlighting Adam Leventhal\u2019s 2016 post (2016 comments) about Apple\u2019s Leopard-era support for ZFS: A few weeks before WWDC 2007 nerds like me started to lose their minds: Apple really was going to port ZFS to Mac OS X. 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